I don't think at this point in time that anyone really takes anything you say seriously, if anything reading your spiel is a bit of a giggle. 

:) I think you're trying to convince me that that is the case.  However, if it is infact the case your ignorance and closed eye's simply helps my cause.  Keep giggling we'll keep growing. 

Have a wonderful day Mate.

Edited July 22, 201510 yr by NYPDDetectiveODonnell

While I admittedly do not know much about what really happened, why did the officer ask the woman to put the cigarette away? Also, the officer slammed the woman's head into the ground according to the video transcript.Even though the facts are not all out there yet, if the reports of brutality in the jail were true, then  I can see why she committed suicide.

Edited July 22, 201510 yr by LibertarianLeftist

I don't get how you can defend the cop on this one.  It can't be just a coincidence that she's ordered out of the car immediately after saying no to being asked to stub out the cigarette.  He even says "well, you can step on out now" which, to me at least, heavily implies that's a direct response to her refusal.

The cop also clearly doesn't know the law, you can hear when he's on the phone giving his account of the incident (which seems greatly exaggerated), that anyone he pulls over is "technically under arrest".  This is blatantly wrong, a traffic stop is a brief detention, not an arrest.

His attempts at de-esclating the situation are pathetic as well.  "I tried to de-escalate her, it wasn't getting anywhere at all.  I'm trying to put the taser away"

"I'm trying to get her detained, you know, I tried talking to her, just calm her down.  Get her to calm down.."

He says as well his reason for getting her out of the car was "I was trying to get her out over to the side and just explain to her what was going on.  I couldn't even get to do what I was telling her... She just started going this is an MF... I just stepped back to the car and was like "Are you done ma'am, I'm gonna tell you why and what I'm giving you".

Actually pretty horribly inconsistent with what happened.

The rest of the video is actually pretty important.  His version of events is seriously exaggerated.  She's not helping any, but he's taking entirely the wrong approach.

Like I said to someone in another thread here just because I am giving a justification for the officer's actions doesn't mean I agree with it I am simply stating what the law says. Do I think he handled it appropriately? Some of it, but there were definitely some things that he could have done a lot better.

:) Dude who gives a lying rats behind. I am all for following the law if its necessary however, for what reason did he have to order her out of the vehicle? If she was suspicious looking he would have surely ordered her out sooner. His only reason was because he didn't like the way she spoke to him and refused to circum to his power struggle. Now where in the law does it condone that? You know I am so happy GOD took my opportunity away to join these guys. I honestly think I was way to good for them anyhow.  I would have been a real officer not a thug. But again private forces are coming to a state near you so far  we have:

a team called "copblock"

"Open carry texas"

we are trying to get occupy wall street states except NY of course.

and all other of the "open carry" states.

 

In other words:

 

:) see ya soon.

You obviously didn't read the case law I told you about. It pretty much says that if an officer asks you to step out of the vehicle you have to comply.

Glad you have those things going for you, I really don't care about any teams or whatever you have going on. I know that you are trying to troll me so I'm just going to go on my merry way, have a nice day.

Like I said to someone in another thread here just because I am giving a justification for the officer's actions doesn't mean I agree with it I am simply stating what the law says. Do I think he handled it appropriately? Some of it, but there were definitely some things that he could have done a lot better.

You obviously didn't read the case law I told you about. It pretty much says that if an officer asks you to step out of the vehicle you have to comply.

Glad you have those things going for you, I really don't care about any teams or whatever you have going on. I know that you are trying to troll me so I'm just going to go on my merry way, have a nice day.

You believe what you will.  You'll see soon. But a wise person always told me "never let left know what your right is doing"  Sayonara buddy.  

You'll see soon.

That your probably in some way linking to your militia.
I'll probably see you requested to leave again, please, just stop with the militia. The US has a police budget of billions for a reason.
Oh, and please, mate is sorta a British thing.

This topic isn't about private police forces.  Stay on subject.

Video at l3ubbas link has been removed.

For all of you that think she was in the wrong, you are the problem. Put out your cigarette is not a lawful order. He got butt sore she flexed her rights and he escalated the situation. Keep the attitude of just be nice, do what you're told. He's not on the streets to adjust attitudes. He had no reason to order her out of the car.
 

Edited July 22, 201510 yr by Drunkpolice

I don't get how you can defend the cop on this one.  It can't be just a coincidence that she's ordered out of the car immediately after saying no to being asked to stub out the cigarette.  He even says "well, you can step on out now" which, to me at least, heavily implies that's a direct response to her refusal.

The cop also clearly doesn't know the law, you can hear when he's on the phone giving his account of the incident (which seems greatly exaggerated), that anyone he pulls over is "technically under arrest".  This is blatantly wrong, a traffic stop is a brief detention, not an arrest.

His attempts at de-esclating the situation are pathetic as well.  "I tried to de-escalate her, it wasn't getting anywhere at all.  I'm trying to put the taser away"

"I'm trying to get her detained, you know, I tried talking to her, just calm her down.  Get her to calm down.."

He says as well his reason for getting her out of the car was "I was trying to get her out over to the side and just explain to her what was going on.  I couldn't even get to do what I was telling her... She just started going this is an MF... I just stepped back to the car and was like "Are you done ma'am, I'm gonna tell you why and what I'm giving you".

Actually pretty horribly inconsistent with what happened.

The rest of the video is actually pretty important.  His version of events is seriously exaggerated.  She's not helping any, but he's taking entirely the wrong approach.

There's only one thing Id like to point out about that comment, overall good and right however there is one thing id like to clarify. In the state of Texas ( I don't know the law every where else) a citation is considered an arrest. It is not considered a custodial arrest meaning you are booked into the jail. It does however mean that the officer can ask you to leave the vehicle, detain you in cuffs or not, and then issue you a citation or warning.

 

Also the officer has not been suspended at this time. He was taken off patrol duties and placed in Admin duties.

Good lord guys..the arrest is not really the point here. He was legally allowed to arrest her yes, should he have? No. But he wasn't going to tolerate her attitude. This has been discussed more than enough, so I'm not adding anymore to that because that is not the point of this investigation. She died in jail and that is what is being questioned. Why did she commit suicide? The logical explanation is she was most likely depressed. More than 40 million people in the US are diagnosed with depression and being in jail was probably the last straw for her. This whole thing is being blown way out of proportion just like that pool incident a few months back. Relax. 

Lets talk about what really matters, and what should be discussed. How was she able to commit suicide in jail? What can be done to prevent this kind of thing from happening again? Should all cells including holding cells have security cameras? Etc. These are questions that should be discussed, not what is currently being discussed.

Biggest crime in America is disrespecting a police officer. Why didn't he just answer her when she asked 14 times why she was being arrested? I've seeb this time after time, why do they never just tell the person why they're being detained? How can you charge someone with resisting arrest when there's no reason to arrest in the first place? Was she a perfect person when she was pulled over? No, she was grumpy and challenged his authority, and it spiraled out of control. Yelled at, ripped out of the car, and threatened to be tased for being grumpy? We all know that's crazy, come on.

I'm not going to bring up race because that's a touchy issue, but if this was a Bently in Beverly hills, there's no way it would've ended like this. People with no power always get the short end of the stick.

 

As for her death, it doesn't make any sense. She was about to be released, she had a new job and was apparently happy with all of her friends and family. It just doesn't add up why someone would choose to kill themselves at that moment. There really needs to be a federal investigation into her death, its mind-boggling.

Edited July 23, 201510 yr by Riley24

Sense there is camera footage of the cell, it is extremely unlikely that this was a murder. I would say it was unlikely even before then. The media says nothing about a blind spot in the footage, and the whole department would need to be in on it for that to be possible. I believe that cameras do need to be in view of every cell, but that brings up the topic of privacy. I believe people at least need a shred of privacy in jail. With that said, a privacy blanket was how the young lady killed herself. This just puts my opinion at a cross road.

You don't get to rip someone out of their car for no reason and then charge them with resisting arrest. There has to be an arrest to resist for someone to be charged with that.

N/A

Edited November 14, 20178 yr by Account Deleted

He had no reason to order her out of the car.

I'm getting tired of repeating myself, go read the previous comments referring to Pennsylvania v. Mimms. In short, the US Supreme Court ruled that an officer can order you out of the car during a traffic stop.

Biggest crime in America is disrespecting a police officer. Why didn't he just answer her when she asked 14 times why she was being arrested? I've seeb this time after time, why do they never just tell the person why they're being detained? How can you charge someone with resisting arrest when there's no reason to arrest in the first place? Was she a perfect person when she was pulled over? No, she was grumpy and challenged his authority, and it spiraled out of control. Yelled at, ripped out of the car, and threatened to be tased for being grumpy? We all know that's crazy, come on.

I'm not going to bring up race because that's a touchy issue, but if this was a Bently in Beverly hills, there's no way it would've ended like this. People with no power always get the short end of the stick.

 

As for her death, it doesn't make any sense. She was about to be released, she had a new job and was apparently happy with all of her friends and family. It just doesn't add up why someone would choose to kill themselves at that moment. There really needs to be a federal investigation into her death, its mind-boggling.

Sometimes you don't tell someone the charges until you have them cuffed because some people get even more combative when they find out what they are being charged with (especially if they are already aggravated like this lady was). If you tell someone they are being charged with a felony they might get scared or angry and want to fight. There is less of a chance of them trying to escape when you already have them in cuffs. Bottom line, she shouldn't have been resisting in the first place. There was a reason to arrest her, she was told to get out of the car (which we have already established is well within the officer's rights) and she refused, she was disobeying a lawful order. When the officer tried to remove her from the car and detain her she kept on fighting so that is how she got a resisting charge.

And before the video in my link got removed you could see immediately prior to the traffic stop the officer was actually finishing up a different stop on someone and he didn't treat that person any differently. The first traffic stop was actually on a car that was much older and more beat up than the one that Ms. Bland was driving so your suggestion that he was treating her that way because she was black or of a possible lower social class (which doesn't even appear to be true based on her clothes and car) is invalid. Not to mention this brings up the issue that I brought up with you in another thread where race is automatically brought up as an issue before there is even a shred of evidence to suggest that it played a factor. You are essentially calling that officer a racist for no reason.

She also had a history of and was battling depression and wasn't in a good state of mind as seen in the dashcam video. I am not opposed to any kind of investigation and, in my opinion, based on the facts that are known right now I believe she killed herself. However, if an investigation reveals otherwise then the appropriate action should and will be taken.

You don't get to rip someone out of their car for no reason and then charge them with resisting arrest. There has to be an arrest to resist for someone to be charged with that.

Didn't we just go over this? Remember that case law that I seem to be repeating over and over that started with a "P" and ended in a "ennsylvania v. Mimms"? He gave a lawful order to step out of the car and she refused. He attempted to pull her out of the car and she fought back that is resisting.

Sometimes you don't tell someone the charges until you have them cuffed because some people get even more combative when they find out what they are being charged with (especially if they are already aggravated like this lady was). If you tell someone they are being charged with a felony they might get scared or angry and want to fight. There is less of a chance of them trying to escape when you already have them in cuffs. Bottom line, she shouldn't have been resisting in the first place. There was a reason to arrest her, she was told to get out of the car (which we have already established is well within the officer's rights) and she refused, she was disobeying a lawful order. When the officer tried to remove her from the car and detain her she kept on fighting so that is how she got a resisting charge.

And before the video in my link got removed you could see immediately prior to the traffic stop the officer was actually finishing up a different stop on someone and he didn't treat that person any differently. The first traffic stop was actually on a car that was much older and more beat up than the one that Ms. Bland was driving so your suggestion that he was treating her that way because she was black or of a possible lower social class (which doesn't even appear to be true based on her clothes and car) is invalid. Not to mention this brings up the issue that I brought up with you in another thread where race is automatically brought up as an issue before there is even a shred of evidence to suggest that it played a factor. You are essentially calling that officer a racist for no reason.

She also had a history of and was battling depression and wasn't in a good state of mind as seen in the dashcam video. I am not opposed to any kind of investigation and, in my opinion, based on the facts that are known right now I believe she killed herself. However, if an investigation reveals otherwise then the appropriate action should and will be taken.

So what was she under arrest for? She was pulled over for improper signalling, was a little rude to the officer, was asked to get out of the car, refused,  forcibly removed, threatened to be tased, allegedly physically harmed by the officer, and then charged with resisting arrest. But what was she under arrest for? Being asked to get out of the car is not an arrest. Yes, an officer may have the legal right to ask a suspect to get out of his/her car, but you can't resist an arrest that was never being made in the first place. Whether or not refusing to get out of a car is an arrest-able offense is questionable, I'm sure you'll pull up a court case but the simple fact remains: the officer didn't have to handle the situation like this. He could have just handed her a ticket and sent her on her way, but instead let himself become enraged at the fact that she was disrespectful and not complying with pointless requests and escalated the situation from there. Not only that, but he needlessly endangered himself and escalated the situation by lunging into the car shouting "I WILL LIGHT YOU UP". It is abundantly clear that he wasn't in a good state of mind. Do you remember the Supreme Court case that said you have to judge it from the officer's perspective? Well, he's a rookie officer. It is logical to conclude, based on how he handled the situation, that he was insecure about his authority, and that is why he reacted violently when it was challenged by Bland. You can hear it in his voice when he asks her to get out of the car, his voice is shaking with how angry he is.

A lot of people have a history of battling depression, that doesn't mean that they would pull a 180 and commit suicide at a time like this. Couple that with the mysteriously edited tape released by the sheriff's department, and it makes sense for this to be treated as a homicide investigation.

And I'm not calling the officer racist, I never did. But we all know that this doesn't happen to powerful people. People with power pick on people with no power, that's human nature. It doesn't happen in every case, but you can't tell me he would've treated a Wall Street banker in a Bentley like this. He would've been sued or suspended, because the banker has more power than him.

 

Edited July 23, 201510 yr by Riley24

Reports said she attacked him first, I don't know..I didn't waste an hour of my life watching the dashcam video of the retardedness. It's not the point of this. Autopsy and corner both said it was suicide and not murder. There is NO EVIDENCE of murder. Source. 

Also, according to the autopsy, she tried killing herself prior to being arrested and she also has cuts on her wrist indicating that she was indeed fighting heavy depression.

Edited July 23, 201510 yr by xRaymond

N/A

Edited November 14, 20178 yr by Account Deleted

The media, and the people who somehow seriously believe that the police killed her, are blowing this way out of proportion. At lease there's no riots or looting, but that probably is because this took place in Texas.

A factor could be that there was dashcam footage too, although that really holds zero credibility for those who are just looking for an easy scapegoat. When the Media throws nothing but race into the mix and uses that to fuel an already touchy, existing fire then that really means nothing for those who are just looking for a reason to riot or play the race card. 

I remember when the Ferguson shooting happened back in 2014, first thing to happen was rioting long before any evidence came to light, riots not only sparked in Missouri but all across different states, even here in Canada some smaller less violent riots sparked in Toronto Ontario and became more deadly when the verdict for the Officer came in that he was not guilty. 

People believe whatever they want to believe, regardless of evidence and regardless of any rational thought. A big part of it has to do with Media coverage being so one-sided, another is just people's ability to be excessively ignorant. 

So what was she under arrest for? She was pulled over for improper signalling, was a little rude to the officer, was asked to get out of the car, refused,  forcibly removed, threatened to be tased, allegedly physically harmed by the officer, and then charged with resisting arrest. But what was she under arrest for? Being asked to get out of the car is not an arrest. Yes, an officer may have the legal right to ask a suspect to get out of his/her car, but you can't resist an arrest that was never being made in the first place. Whether or not refusing to get out of a car is an arrest-able offense is questionable, I'm sure you'll pull up a court case but the simple fact remains: the officer didn't have to handle the situation like this. He could have just handed her a ticket and sent her on her way, but instead let himself become enraged at the fact that she was disrespectful and not complying with pointless requests and escalated the situation from there. Not only that, but he needlessly endangered himself and escalated the situation by lunging into the car shouting "I WILL LIGHT YOU UP". It is abundantly clear that he wasn't in a good state of mind. Do you remember the Supreme Court case that said you have to judge it from the officer's perspective? Well, he's a rookie officer. It is logical to conclude, based on how he handled the situation, that he was insecure about his authority, and that is why he reacted violently when it was challenged by Bland. You can hear it in his voice when he asks her to get out of the car, his voice is shaking with how angry he is.

A lot of people have a history of battling depression, that doesn't mean that they would pull a 180 and commit suicide at a time like this. Couple that with the mysteriously edited tape released by the sheriff's department, and it makes sense for this to be treated as a homicide investigation.

And I'm not calling the officer racist, I never did. But we all know that this doesn't happen to powerful people. People with power pick on people with no power, that's human nature. It doesn't happen in every case, but you can't tell me he would've treated a Wall Street banker in a Bentley like this. He would've been sued or suspended, because the banker has more power than him.

 

I don't know Texas state law so I couldn't give you a specific criminal statute that she was being arrested for but I am sure there is some law (as there is in most states) for not obeying a lawful command. I can't believe you are still trying to argue whether refusing to get out of the car is an arrest-able offense after I just quoted the case law that says you have to listen to the officer. So yes, it is an arrest-able offense, the law is perfectly clear about that. And as I said in the other thread, Graham v. Connor looks at the situation from a reasonable officer's point of view, not the officer that was on scene but I'm getting tired of repeating myself so I will let you read that in the other thread.

Really? People who are fighting depression wouldn't kill themselves? Not to mention the part of the autopsy report that just came out even says the injuries are consistent with a suicide and there are no signs of a struggle; and she had lots of cut marks on her arms and wrists. Another inmate that was in the cell near Bland said that Bland was very emotional during her stay in jail. And the sheriff's office released 3 hours of footage showing that nothing suspicious happened. The investigation isn't over yet but all of this evidence is already piling up and it is looking like she did commit suicide.

It does happen to powerful people, it just doesn't make national headlines as often. Remember a couple years ago when Reese Witherspoon and her husband were pulled over? Her husband got arrested for DUI and Reese Witherspoon got arrested for disorderly conduct.