I usually don't like bringing up topics like this, especially when it's about another country, but this hate campaign against Confederate flag really got to me. I see people on this forum, those who I respect and whose knowledge I value, stating things like "Confederate  flag represents only racism and should be banned" and it makes me wonder how can this happen in the USA. Here in Russia things like that have been happening for last 70 years, but the USA was always viewed a the last place where freedom of opinion still exists.

Well, cut the shit. Here's the story: a man asked Walmart for a cake with Confederate flag with the words "Heritage not hate", and was refused. However when he asked for a cake with ISIS flag, his request was accepted. Of course, Wallmart says nobody knew what the flag it is and so on, but I, personally, do not believe them. For me it is really weird that not many people seem to give a **** about the actual evil (like those berkley students who indireclty supported ISIS flag). However, that might be only a one-sided image media is trying to create. So what really goes on there, ladies and gentlemen? 

but the USA was always viewed a the last place where freedom of opinion still exists.

Wat? No, people really need to stop with idolizing the US like that. Freedom of opinion still exists in -many- other countries, they aren't the only super free land of the universe.

As for the rest of your post, I'd appreciate a source about this cake with ISIS flag, because I've a hard time believing it.

Edited June 30, 201510 yr by Hystery

Wat? No, people really need to stop with idolizing the US like that. Freedom of opinion still exists in -many- other countries, they aren't the only super free land of the universe.

As for the rest of your post, I'd appreciate a source about this cake with ISIS flag, because I've a hard time believing it.

Well, that's the Soviet-formed world view here. In 80's it was a confrontation between the USSR and the USA for people here, including my family, and the USA was considered to be a heaven. 

Ah shieeet, thanks for reminding. 

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/walmart-apologizes-making-isis-cake-man-denied-confederate/story?id=32103721

I usually don't like bringing up topics like this, especially when it's about another country, but this hate campaign against Confederate flag really got to me. I see people on this forum, those who I respect and whose knowledge I value, stating things like "Confederate  flag represents only racism and should be banned" and it makes me wonder how can this happen in the USA. Here in Russia things like that have been happening for last 70 years, but the USA was always viewed a the last place where freedom of opinion still exists.

Well, cut the shit. Here's the story: a man asked Walmart for a cake with Confederate flag with the words "Heritage not hate", and was refused. However when he asked for a cake with ISIS flag, his request was accepted. Of course, Wallmart says nobody knew what the flag it is and so on, but I, personally, do not believe them. For me it is really weird that not many people seem to give a **** about the actual evil (like those berkley students who indireclty supported ISIS flag). However, that might be only a one-sided image media is trying to create. So what really goes on there, ladies and gentlemen? 

Because people are ignorant, and only know what they've been taught in school or from what they've heard on far left-wing media outlets. Doesn't matter what people think of the Confederate flag, you should have the right to wave whatever flag you want. That's what gives America its name. "The land of the free". How can we be called that when we are denying people a basic right to wave a damned flag? It doesn't make sense, and it's hypocritical. I support the existence of the Confederate flag, no matter what it represents. If you're an American and you think that the flag should be banned and made illegal, then you are a hypocrite.

Because people are ignorant, and only know what they've been taught in school or from what they've heard on far left-wing media outlets. Doesn't matter what people think of the Confederate flag, you should have the right to wave whatever flag you want. That's what gives America its name. "The land of the free". How can we be called that when we are denying people a basic right to wave a damned flag? It doesn't make sense, and it's hypocritical. I support the existence of the Confederate flag, no matter what it represents. If you're an American and you think that the flag should be banned and made illegal, then you are a hypocrite.

Following your logic, anyone could wave an ISIS flag, because they have the right to do so. It's not a matter of right when it comes to that, but of interpretation and personal belief.

Also, you should consider stopping to use the "left-wing propaganda" stuff, because it also can work the other way around. Anyone could say you got brainwashed by the conservative medias and stuff. Don't think it brings anything to the conversation besides more drama. My two cents, though.

I support the existence of the Confederate flag, no matter what it represents. If you're an American and you think that the flag should be banned and made illegal, then you are a hypocrite.

I laughed quite loudly, since this is basically also the opinion of most USA citizens on Liveleak. But when you try to wave an ISIS flag in your country, see how fast you get lynched by the people and be locked up for provocations.

 

Ninja'd by mr. Hystery. But yeah, no offence, 'Murica is known for it's hypocrite lifestyle.

Edited June 30, 201510 yr by TheChef

Following your logic, anyone could wave an ISIS flag, because they have the right to do so. It's not a matter of right when it comes to that, but of interpretation and personal belief.

Also, you should consider stopping to use the "left-wing propaganda" stuff, because it also can work the other way around. Anyone could say you got brainwashed by the conservative medias and stuff. Don't think it brings anything to the conversation besides more drama. My two cents, though.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. If you want to wave the ISIS flag, then you have that right. I'd personally think you should be deported, and sent to Iraq while being barred from the country, and I'd hate you with a passion; but they should have that right. We don't decide whether or not people should possess certain rights based on if it's for a good cause. "Oh this flag represents genocide, it's banned". "Oh this flag represents extremism and hate, it's banned". It may be that way in Europe, but it's not that way here in America, and it shouldn't be. We can't be called "the land of the free" while removing people's basic right to wave a piece of cloth.

The reason I include left-wing propaganda is because that's what it is. It's propaganda and lies by the liberal media. This is clearly an issue of liberalism and conservatism, because the liberals feel that this flag represents nothing more than hate. Conservatives feel that this flag represent heritage and history. I'm sick and tired of the left saying that the right forces their beliefs on people, yet what's happening now? The left is trying to force their beliefs on the entire nation. It's hypocritical and I won't just sit by and watch it happen. Conservatives do the same thing, and they are hypocrites as well. This isn't exclusive to one party or one side.

Edited June 30, 201510 yr by TheDivineHustle

Following your logic, anyone could wave an ISIS flag, because they have the right to do so. It's not a matter of right when it comes to that, but of interpretation and personal belief.

Also, you should consider stopping to use the "left-wing propaganda" stuff, because it also can work the other way around. Anyone could say you got brainwashed by the conservative medias and stuff. Don't think it brings anything to the conversation besides more drama. My two cents, though.

So  basically for you there's no difference between ISIS and CSA? Really? ISIS is designated as a terorist organisation by the UN and many other countries including the USA. Correct me if I'm wrong but CSA wasn't.  

Because people are ignorant, and only know what they've been taught in school or from what they've heard on far left-wing media outlets. Doesn't matter what people think of the Confederate flag, you should have the right to wave whatever flag you want. That's what gives America its name. "The land of the free". How can we be called that when we are denying people a basic right to wave a damned flag? It doesn't make sense, and it's hypocritical. I support the existence of the Confederate flag, no matter what it represents. If you're an American and you think that the flag should be banned and made illegal, then you are a hypocrite.

I agree with you. One may demand the CSA flag to be removed from the government owned facilities, but all those bans by private corporations and media outrage...

However, I didn't want to create another thread about "CSA: good or not". We already have one. I'm interested in how Americans really think about CSA and ISIS. 

I laughed quite loudly, since this is basically also the opinion of most USA citizens on Liveleak. But when you try to wave an ISIS flag in your country, see how fast you get lynched by the people and be locked up for provocations.

 

Ninja'd by mr. Hystery. But yeah, no offence, 'Murica is known for it's hypocrite lifestyle.

Seems as if you are still stuck in the 50's and 60's. Lynching doesn't happen anymore, if the media in the Netherlands didn't inform you all. If American citizens saw the ISIS flag waving in America, most would look, be in awe, say it's terrible, and keep driving. Some would take pictures, some would call the police. Some would even rip it down and burn or vandalize it. The police would probably conduct an investigation on the owner of the flag.

You live in the Netherlands and you speak as if you know exactly how America works, and you don't. This is the problem I have with people residing outside of this country, yet they think they know what they're talking about. Some do, most don't. Hastings clearly knows what he's saying. It's a right, not a "what's right".

Edited June 30, 201510 yr by TheDivineHustle

Seems as if you are still stuck in the 50's and 60's. Lynching doesn't happen anymore, if the media in the Netherlands didn't inform you all. If American citizens saw the ISIS flag waving in America, most would look, be in awe, say it's terrible, and keep driving. Some would take pictures, some would call the police. Some would even rip it down and burn or vandalize it. The police would probably conduct an investigation on the owner of the flag.

Here's the info I wanted to hear. So, generally Americans will react negatively if they see someone with ISIS flag, including reporting the person with it?  

Here's the info I wanted to hear. So, generally Americans will react negatively if they see someone with ISIS flag, including reporting the person with it?  

Depending on your location, I'd say yes. Based on past experiences and witnesses of similar situations, some people would state that it's terrible to wave such a flag and keep moving. Some would stand around and take pictures. Some would call the police and report terrorism. Some would even vandalize the flag, rip it apart, burn it, and replace it with an American flag. Depending on how pissed people are, some would even knock on the door and vandalize the home itself, but this is very unlikely. Most likely, people would just take pictures, say it's terrible, call the cops, and keep driving. How the police would handle the situation, I have no clue.

So  basically for you there's no difference between ISIS and CSA? Really? ISIS is designated as a terorist organisation by the UN and many other countries including the USA. Correct me if I'm wrong but CSA wasn't.  

The Confederate flag in the middle of this whole controversy is a battle flag. Not a flag representing the south or the confederate states. It was made for battle. From that point, no, I wouldn't see any difference between someone waving an ISIS and someone waving a confederate flag. They may come from different horizons, but they both were made as a war banner, and they both represent a considerable ammount of deaths for idiotic goals. If I saw someone waving the US flag, I'd be like "Oh, some patriotic american", I'd shrug it off, and quickly forget about it. If I saw someone waving a confederate flag, I'd be like "Another southern racist piece of crap coming from the butthole of the world". That's how it is, matter of interpretation. Each one their own.

Besides, what's the point of waving a confederate flag, at the end? Isn't the american people supposed to be united under the US flag? That's the real flag, the one they should actually wave. Waving a confederate flag is just looking for controversy on purpose, IMO.

Edited June 30, 201510 yr by Hystery

Depending on your location, I'd say yes. Based on past experiences and witnesses of similar situations, some people would state that it's terrible to wave such a flag and keep moving. Some would stand around and take pictures. Some would call the police and report terrorism. Some would even vandalize the flag, rip it apart, burn it, and replace it with an American flag. Depending on how pissed people are, some would even knock on the door and vandalize the home itself, but this is very unlikely. Most likely, people would just take pictures, say it's terrible, call the cops, and keep driving. How the police would handle the situation, I have no clue.

Good, the hope is returning to me. I assume you saw he video with Berkeley students ignoring the ISIS flag, it made me kinda worried. On the other hand while I was working in B-more my boss from Tennessee wore a t-shirt with a CSA flag on it. No one of my colleagues was offended in any way, and they were black (me and John were only two whites, and we always got along just fine). 

Good, the hope is returning to me. I assume you saw he video with Berkeley students ignoring the ISIS flag, it made me kinda worried. On the other hand while I was working in B-more my boss from Tennessee wore a t-shirt with a CSA flag on it. No one of my colleagues was offended in any way, and they were black (me and John were only two whites, and we always got along just fine). 

I'd also like to mention that I'm black. Since the flag represents such racism and hate, why am I not offended? Maybe because it doesn't represent racism and hate? Maybe that's just what racist bigots use the flag to represent?

If American citizens saw the ISIS flag waving in America, most would look, be in awe, say it's terrible, and keep driving. Some would take pictures, some would call the police. Some would even rip it down and burn or vandalize it. The police would probably conduct an investigation on the owner of the flag.

Exactly what i'm saying. A bit hypocrite, don't you think?

You live in the Netherlands and you speak as if you know exactly how America works, and you don't. This is the problem I have with people residing outside of this country, yet they think they know what they're talking about. Some do, most don't. Hastings clearly knows what he's saying. It's a right, not a "what's right".

Here we go with the hypocrite crap again. You assume that because my profile says Netherlands, that i don't know anything about your country or situation. Wow, the word hypocrite has never shined so bright on my screen before. 

Apparantly you want to keep this discussion within your borders so why you would discuss it on an international forum and then try to shup up anybody who is not from your country is pretty sad.

Edited June 30, 201510 yr by TheChef

The Confederate flag in the middle of this whole controversy is a battle flag. Not a flag representing the south or the confederate states. It was made for battle. From that point, no, I wouldn't see any difference between someone waving an ISIS and someone waving a confederate flag. They may come from different horizons, but they both were made as a war banner, and they both represent a considerable ammount of deaths for idiotic goals. If I saw someone waving the US flag, I'd be like "Oh, some patriotic american", I'd shrug it off, and quickly forget about it. If I saw someone waving a confederate flag, I'd be like "Another southern racist piece of crap coming from the butthole of the world". That's how it is, matter of interpretation. Each one their own.

Besides, what's the point of waving a confederate flag, at the end? Isn't the american people supposed to be united under the US flag? That's the real flag, the one they should actually wave. Waving a confederate flag is just looking for controversy on purpose, IMO.

well, Wiki says it was CSA's national flag. 

There were three successive national flag designs that served as the official national flags of the Confederate States of America (the "Confederate States" or the "Confederacy") during its existence from 1861 to 1865.

 And, actually, thanks to the freedom of speech you can call me a southern racist piece of crap from the butthole of the world, and that's your right. My right is to wave any kind of flag unless it is prohibited by the law.  I have no clue how US laws govern that issue, but here if an organization is declared a terrorist organization, you cannot display its symbols, it's a criminal offense. 

Of course, "me" is an example, I don't even own this flag. 

Exactly what i'm saying. A bit hypocrite, don't you think?

Here we go with the hypocrite crap again. You assume that because my profile says Netherlands, that i don't know anything about your country or situation. Wow, the word hypocrite has never shined so bright on my screen before. 

If you want to get personal, fine, you come across like a 12 year old with a baked opinion that's never going to change, so it's completely useless to try and have a decent conversation/discussion with you about this sort of stuff.

So basically what you are saying is that everybody who doesn't have the USA flag on their profile should not participate in these discussions? Because we have no clue of what's going on in your country? Cringing, seriously, i hope not all people in the states think that way, it's sad. And very typical to be honest, 'we are the best and nobody should mess with us!'

 

ad hominem

[ ˈad ˈhämənəm ] 

 

ADVERB and ADJECTIVE

1. (of an argument or reaction) arising from or appealing to the emotions and not reason or logic.
   • attacking an opponent's motives or character rather than the policy or position they maintain:
     "vicious ad hominem attacks"
2. relating to or associated with a particular person:
   "the office was created ad hominem for Fenton"

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Edited June 30, 201510 yr by TheDivineHustle

Please, TheDivineHustle and TheChef, there's really no need to turn aggressive  and offend each other. Even if your views differ, it can be discussed in a peaceful way, can't it? 

Please, TheDivineHustle and TheChef, there's really no need to turn aggressive  and offend each other. Even if your views differ, it can be discussed in a peaceful way, can't it? 

I don't mind having a civilized argument with anyone on anything. I just argued with Hystery with no issues. We simply had a disagreeance in views. Why wasn't I able to do this with TheChef? Because of what I just posted above.

I don't mind having a civilized argument with anyone on anything. I just argued with Hystery with no issues. We simply had a disagreeance in views. Why wasn't I able to do this with TheChef? Because of what I just posted above.

I was fine with calling it a discussion until you went on the personal offence and trying to shut me up 'just because i'm dutch'. That is sad, but shows alot about you. Now carry on with your discussion, foreigners stay out.

Edited June 30, 201510 yr by TheChef