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Less lethal cops? Also note on the arrest animation


Sonny236

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Reinstalling literally wouldnt do anything. I've reinstalled about a week ago to fix some other issue, but if you want me to I'll try again. Could be something in my ini but I'm not sure, all I know is 99% of the time they're lethal if the suspect has a weapon, weather I tase them and they comply or not.

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I believe if a cop is set to use "lethal force" once, toggling it again does nothing. So if the suspects attack an officer, or you press the toggle key, or any other trigger, until those officers or suspects are no longer alive, they'll still shoot.

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I believe if a cop is set to use "lethal force" once, toggling it again does nothing. So if the suspects attack an officer, or you press the toggle key, or any other trigger, until those officers or suspects are no longer alive, they'll still shoot.

 

Well I figure thats why it's considered toggleable, I would like the option to have the AI use lethal force or not, and if It's unauthorized have them only use it in 100% necessary situations (Like I stated, if the suspect aims a weapon at an officer or ped).

 

It's pretty unrealistic that you would shoot the shit out of a downed suspect who dropped their weapon, In extreme cases I've had them shoot when they put their hands up, and I move in for the arrest. I know LCPD isnt all realistic but once again It's my personal preference

 

Hopefully one of the devs looks this over.

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I'll try to keep this short: Cops use lethal force too often in pursuits and situations. Now I know if a suspect is AIMING a weapon at an officer that gives them the right to shoot, and despite AI being fairly...stupid because of GTA, I understand but I have situations where the suspect has phyiscally dropped his weapon and is on the ground, either surrendering or being tased and the AI will STILL shoot them to death. This makes it hard to make arrests and ends up in a bloodbath where I always call the coroner, especially in the Armed Robbery callout.

 

If you set "Lethal Force" to Unauthorized in the pursuit menu, the cops should NOT be allowed to shoot the suspect unless he's firing his weapon or aiming it at someone. Even when I set it to unauthorized, they still open fire, especially NOOSE.

 

If this could be added/fixed that would be nice, I find it a personal preference but I'd rather arrest them than shoot everyone when it's not necessary, like I said theres times where I taze them and they drop their weapon but still get shot up by every cop, if 15+ officers are aiming weapons at somebody they should surrender, so either the suspect has to have a higher ratio of surrendering or cops need to start using tazers again, or atleast intimidating the person. I would shit myself If I had 20 noose Officers aiming M4's at me, I'd get down as fast as I can.

 

Speaking of which, I'm not sure if its just me but cops dont seem to use tasers anymore  :sleep: I've seen it once or twice recently while ending a pursuit but it's highly rare at this point. in 1.0a I remember them using it a ton more.

 

That's all I guess, I just get annoyed when this happens, the only way to stop it from happening is spamming E and hoping for the best, cause if I can get the arrest animation going then they will stop shooting. 

 

other than that some new callouts would be nice. maybe some ideas from Callouts+ or WoutersCallouters, because both are broken right now and I'm waiting on the devs to update it for 1.0c, most things just crash.

 

Sorry, last thing: on a smaller note the arrest animation should start with their hands on their head, like when you frisk them but with arresting instead, in my opinion it looks goofy as hell having their hands up, it seems practical  :tongue: or maybe something like getting on their knees, Idk.

 

There's been no changes to the cop AI as far as this is concerned throughout the 1.0 series.  In normal circumstances, they will only start shooting if:

  • Some event or happening brings it on (usually a cop being attacked by a suspect), or
  • The player orders it through the toggle menu

The cops will not shoot at any times in 1.0 unless the lethal force flag on that particular suspect is toggled (done by the player, or reaction to events in the environment).  I should note as well that I added in a certain amount of tolerance to the cops.  If a suspect punches them, or lightly brushes them with a car *in the first instance* , they won't open fire straight away.  Any such attack would need to be repeated (in the case of punches) or somewhat significant (in the case of a car strike).

 

From my observations of playing 1.0, there is one other situation where the cops (or maybe more accurately, a cop) might open fire, and that's due to LCPDFR and the game trying to do different things.  In the late stages of development for 1.0, I changed much of the cop chasing logic to maximise usage of the existing AI, rather than use our own set of instructions.  Primarily, this meant that instead of using the 'run to suspect with gun' task, which we use quite a lot in LCPDFR as it is reliable, we now use the more simplistic 'enter combat with this person' task.  The key thing though is that GTA IV handles combat differently based on the entities involved.  If I selected a random pedestrian and found a nearby cop (both spawned by the game), and told the cop to fight the pedestrian, he would actually run over and arrest him instead.  If i do this with mission entities though (most things in LCPDFR are set as mission entities so they aren't despawned by the game, and we get more control over them), the cop would start shooting them to death.  Crucially, in this case, while the overall aim might be to kill, all of the movement, tracking, group coordination, combat and speech is also automatically taken care of by the game too, and it provides the same police response that you're used to when the police are after the player (this is nice from a gameplay and especially an audio standpoint).  Back to LCPDFR, though, we obviously don't want the cops to be just shooting these people to death, so we also have some code in there which manipulates them a bit and prevents them from shooting.  Unfortunately, sometimes this doesn't always work, and you may end up with a few cops that resort back to shooting.  Nevertheless, this should hardly ever happen.

 

I'd note that it seems your examples frequently take place as a suspect is about to be arrested, or has lost their weapon, or something like that.  This is a bit of a tricky situation to deal with and at the moment, LCPDFR doesn't care that much if something like this happens mid-combat.  You should be able to get around this by toggling lethal force in the tactics menu though (I do all the time).

 

Also I'd love to make the arresting look a bit better, but we have a big trade-off between looks and functionality here - indeed, nothing comes for free.  It is incredibly hard to get cops positioned in the right place and such for arresting as it is just now in its relatively simplistic manner.  I've seen what would happen if we tried to change the animations around or get them on the ground or something like that and it isn't pretty (think even more endless running into car doors and walls).

"You tell me exactly what you want, and I will very carefully explain to you why it cannot be."

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-snip-

 

Thanks for the reply Sam!

 

I've noticed about 80% of the time toggling Lethal Force in the menu stops the AI from shooting when I'm trying to arrest, for example earlier I tried and NOOSE moved in on someone with a gun and got them to drop it, which was pretty interesting. I guess it's a random chance it will happen (For me, atleast)

 

for now it's not too much of a major deal, the only rare case that happens is, like I explained when the suspect loses his weapon but the cops continue shooting.

 

Hopefully you guys figure something out for the animations, obviously not a must but would be nice to get some better arrest positions, and I do imagine it's difficult getting the cops positioned right without causing a mess.

 

Other than that I still don't see AI with tasers anymore...like ever, once in a blue moon during a pursuit they will taze the suspect when they try to run, such as getting out of a car but not to often. As what I said in another thread, the pursuit should be considered ended when the suspect is in cuffs, right now LCPDFR waits for the cuffed suspect to be in a car, which causes tons of backup and ELS cars to stay until he's physically in a car. There should atleast be more QAM menu options for pursuits, such as being able to end a pursuit or "call it off"

 

one other thing, I know it's probably impossible because GTAIV but the Ambulance driving is just a mess, and they don't even heal people when i call them. I use Abraxas's VdH Policehelper for the Ambulance but once they revive the person you can't arrest them, now if they're in critical condition they should be sent to the hospital but if they aren't I think otherwise.

 

And...because the vdH ambulance tends to crash a bunch in certain situations, so having it with LCPDFR would be nice, they just dont get out they drive right past and ram into more shit :sweat:  Plus along with the issue I have where dead bodies, and cops when I'm not looking at them disappear on a bunch of occasions, which I'm really not sure about.

 

That's all, I guess I'll just see whats up in 1.0d.

Thanks.

Edited by Sonny236
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There's been no changes to the cop AI as far as this is concerned throughout the 1.0 series.  In normal circumstances, they will only start shooting if:

  • Some event or happening brings it on (usually a cop being attacked by a suspect), or
  • The player orders it through the toggle menu

 

Mrrh well, does this work for the AI you take as a partner too? Because when a car I pulled over tries to drive away as I'm about to reach the driver's window, the partner AI immediately picks up his gun and starts shooting at the fleeing car even though the suspects didn't shoot once nor showed a weapon, they just drove away.

Edited by Hystery
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Mrrh well, does this work for the AI you take as a partner too? Because when a car I pulled over tries to drive away as I'm about to reach the driver's window, the partner AI immediately picks up his gun and starts shooting at the fleeing car even though the suspects didn't shoot once nor showed a weapon, they just drove away.

 

No, it is different for partners sadly due to the way in which GTA IV's player bodyguard thing works.

"You tell me exactly what you want, and I will very carefully explain to you why it cannot be."

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