Well I partially agree with tz71. It's the Marine's fault for being oblivious to what should have been obvious. It's Mexico's fault for deciding when it wants to enforce it's laws. Mexico decides to detain an American soldier, and jail him in an instant. Mexico then holds this soldier for almost a year, and the order of a single person authorizes his release. How many other people in Mexico have blatantly broken obvious laws, and Mexico does nothing about it? How many others have driven around in Mexico with the eye-stabbing view of automatic weapons, and Mexico does nothing? Then all of a sudden, a White American soldier has guns, and they jail him almost instantly; Rather then deport him back to the United States and deal with it diplomatically. Mexico is quick to detain one American soldier, but what about the ten million illegal Mexicans in the United States?

The US has a system of checks and balances to ensure things like this don't happen for a year. To ensure that you get a fair and speedy trial. Mexico has nothing that says that, so how can you argue corruption? You can't at all.. As far as cartels running around with guns, that is corruption but has nothing to do with this article as I've been saying. This marine, broke the law and suffered the consequences. You're arguing corruption solely based because they don't have a "BoR" like we do to ensure justice is swift and fair. Our system is far from correct and perfect but it works.

The US has a system of checks and balances to ensure things like this don't happen for a year. To ensure that you get a fair and speedy trial. Mexico has nothing that says that, so how can you argue corruption? You can't at all.. As far as cartels running around with guns, that is corruption but has nothing to do with this article as I've been saying. This marine, broke the law and suffered the consequences. You're arguing corruption solely based because they don't have a "BoR" like we do to ensure justice is swift and fair. Our system is far from correct and perfect but it works.

Everything I've described thus far is in some way or form in related to this article. The subject of the article is corruption, leading to the imprisonment of an American soldier. Mexico is one of the most corrupted countries on the face of the planet. A foreigner from a neighboring country that breaks a minor law, should be deported and dealt with professionally and diplomatically. I'm sure that there have been much worse crimes, and Mexico hasn't done a thing about it. Mexico has some of the worst crime in North America, yet when an American breaks a small law, he's thrown into prison for 8 months. Mexico's trial and sentence system is broken and corrupt, run by cartels and gangs. Every Mexican in the United States that I've talked to said that they fled Mexico because of crime, poverty, and corruption. Why else would they be immigrating to the United States by the millions? 

The US has a system of checks and balances to ensure things like this don't happen for a year. To ensure that you get a fair and speedy trial. Mexico has nothing that says that, so how can you argue corruption? You can't at all.. As far as cartels running around with guns, that is corruption but has nothing to do with this article as I've been saying. This marine, broke the law and suffered the consequences. You're arguing corruption solely based because they don't have a "BoR" like we do to ensure justice is swift and fair. Our system is far from correct and perfect but it works.

Thank you, if you're to actually do some research into Mexicos government they have a multi party system and three systems of branches, the politics of Mexico seem pretty good to me and also C.K Mexicos government may be bad but the U.S government is flawed as well.

Everything I've described thus far is in some way or form in related to this article. The subject of the article is corruption, leading to the imprisonment of an American soldier. Mexico is one of the most corrupted countries on the face of the planet. A foreigner from a neighboring country that breaks a minor law, should be deported and dealt with professionally and diplomatically. I'm sure that there have been much worse crimes, and Mexico hasn't done a thing about it. Mexico has some of the worst crime in North America, yet when an American breaks a small law, he's thrown into prison for 8 months. Mexico's trial and sentence system is broken and corrupt, run by cartels and gangs. Every Mexican in the United States that I've talked to said that they fled Mexico because of crime, poverty, and corruption. Why else would they be immigrating to the United States by the millions?

Most corrupted country on the face of the earth, *coughs North Korea coughs*

Thank you, if you're to actually do some research into Mexicos government they have a multi party system and three systems of branches, the politics of Mexico seem pretty good to me and also C.K Mexicos government may be bad but the U.S government is flawed as well.

Most corrupted country on the face of the earth, *coughs North Korea coughs*

I'd say North Korea is more of a retarded broken Fascist government more than a corrupt government. It's leader is blatantly incompetent and doesn't know how to run a country. It's only a matter of time before the North Korean people overthrow him, there's already been a coup attempt.

 

 

Mexico's government organization appears to be averagely fine, just as every other government on Earth. The details and concept of their rules, and who's creating them are when countries begin to differ. Mexico's leaders are also incompetent, and corrupt. A large difference between Mexico and the United States, is that the Mexican government blatantly steals from it's people without care or remorse. The United States government tries to do it subtlety, and usually succeeds.

Why in the world should they have just deported him? He committed a serious crime in Mexico (the maximum sentence possible is over 20 years in prison); the standard way to handle that diplomatically is just to let him talk to the US Consulate, and there is absolutely no general rule that someone who commits a crime in a foreign country is deported instead of facing punishment there (in fact, the norm would be against that in many cases; if you want to bring a criminal case against someone, you don't let them out of the country, and you often don't deport them until they've served their punishment). The "single person" who ordered his release was a judge, which is exactly the "single person" who would ordinarily be expected to order the release of a prisoner in any country.

As for trial delays and pretrial detention: A few months is not an unusual time to wait for a case to go to trial, and pretrial detention is fairly standard in Mexico. One can argue against high usage of pretrial detention, but it's by no means unfair to apply the same standard to citizens and foreigners (if anything, it's more reasonable to keep an American in jail before trial, because you could make a good case they're more of a flight risk). What you're seeing here is precisely what is expected of any country which has a foreigner commit a serious crime within its borders: they are arrested and tried locally according to local standards, they are not allowed to go home (even if they were released on bail, it's generally not legal to leave the country on bail), the suspect's government worked to assist him, and ultimately a judge decided whether to dismiss charges.

Everything I've described thus far is in some way or form in related to this article. The subject of the article is corruption, leading to the imprisonment of an American soldier. Mexico is one of the most corrupted countries on the face of the planet. A foreigner from a neighboring country that breaks a minor law, should be deported and dealt with professionally and diplomatically. I'm sure that there have been much worse crimes, and Mexico hasn't done a thing about it. Mexico has some of the worst crime in North America, yet when an American breaks a small law, he's thrown into prison for 8 months. Mexico's trial and sentence system is broken and corrupt, run by cartels and gangs. Every Mexican in the United States that I've talked to said that they fled Mexico because of crime, poverty, and corruption. Why else would they be immigrating to the United States by the millions? 

 

Hahaha, that's funny.  An illegal mexican that commits a hit and run, is arrested, tried, and imprisoned in the US. US and Mexican relations are virtually non existent, so we don't help their citizens, they don't help ours, plain and simple. It's a federal law in Mexico, that you CANNOT POSSESS firearms. HE brought firearms, knowingly. They arrested him and detained him. There are no checks and balances like we have that prevent you from being detained for an extended period of time. When you travel to another country, you're expected to abide by there laws. There's no corruption that held him there for 8 months. That's just how there process works. There is corruption in Mexico, I agree with that, but not pertaining to this situation. He broke a law he should have known. 

 

People have become so brainwashed in the US that they think there rights carry over to other countries. It's not a basic human right, or god given right to NOT be detained for 8 years. This is the same mentality that causes everyone to hate US citizens; "Democracy is the best and the US CAN DO NO WRONG!". 

Hahaha, that's funny.  An illegal mexican that commits a hit and run, is arrested, tried, and imprisoned in the US. US and Mexican relations are virtually non existent, so we don't help their citizens, they don't help ours, plain and simple. It's a federal law in Mexico, that you CANNOT POSSESS firearms. HE brought firearms, knowingly. They arrested him and detained him. There are no checks and balances like we have that prevent you from being detained for an extended period of time. When you travel to another country, you're expected to abide by there laws. There's no corruption that held him there for 8 months. That's just how there process works. There is corruption in Mexico, I agree with that, but not pertaining to this situation. He broke a law he should have known. 

 

People have become so brainwashed in the US that they think there rights carry over to other countries. It's not a basic human right, or god given right to NOT be detained for 8 years. This is the same mentality that causes everyone to hate US citizens; "Democracy is the best and the US CAN DO NO WRONG!". 

You're missing my point. For one I disagree about the "We don't help them, they don't help us" thing. This is entirely debatable as the 12 million illegal immigrants in the United States are on their way to citizenship and financial aid. If 12 million illegal Americans went to Mexico demanding rights, I doubt that it would go too well. And the Marine wasn't detained for 8 years, I believe the article said 8 months, if I read correctly. A basic human right is the right to a fair and equal trial by law. Mexico lacks in this basic right, because of their corruption. My point here is that Mexico acts instantly to detain an American. Yet how many other Mexicans have broken serious laws and have yet to face any consequences? I'm not going by any internet sources, I'm going by first hand experience and conversation with Mexican immigrants. Mexico is a mess, and it's law enforcement's twisted priorities don't aid the situation.

Edited November 3, 201411 yr by CriminalKillaz

only corrupt goverments have strict gun laws...fact...your argument is invalid

So you mean to tell me and everyone else here, that places like Canada, Japan, the UK, Australia (my home) and numerous other countries all have corrupt governments because they have strict gun control? Have a look at the websites I have below and tell me what the problem is with not owning a gun.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/opinion/the-gun-challenge-strict-laws-work.html?_r=0

 

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/canada-australia-japan-britain-gun-control-2013-1

Edited November 3, 201411 yr by Chris_Wharley

So you mean to tell me and everyone else here, that places like Canada, Japan, the UK, Australia (my home) and numerous other countries all have corrupt governments because they have strict gun control? Have a look at the websites I have below and tell me what the problem is with not owning a gun.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/opinion/the-gun-challenge-strict-laws-work.html?_r=0

 

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/canada-australia-japan-britain-gun-control-2013-1

I request that we please remain on the topic at hand, about the American soldier. There is a separate thread for gun control already active, Thanks!

You're missing my point. For one I disagree about the "We don't help them, they don't help us" thing. This is entirely debatable as the 12 million illegal immigrants in the United States are on their way to citizenship and financial aid. If 12 million illegal Americans went to Mexico demanding rights, I doubt that it would go too well. And the Marine wasn't detained for 8 years, I believe the article said 8 months, if I read correctly. A basic human right is the right to a fair and equal trial by law. Mexico lacks in this basic right, because of their corruption. My point here is that Mexico acts instantly to detain an American. Yet how many other Mexicans have broken serious laws and have yet to face any consequences? I'm not going by any internet sources, I'm going by first hand experience and conversation with Mexican immigrants. Mexico is a mess, and it's law enforcement's twisted priorities don't aid the situation.

 

Sorry, a typo. I meant 8 months. And the right to a fair and speedy trial IS NOT a basic human right according to the UN. Mexico did NOTHING wrong. We do it all the time to their drug smugglers.

 

And illegal immigration is something entirely different. They're breaking an immigration law, not a criminal law, so to speak. The marine broke a criminal law, he was arrested, detained, and released. They DO NOT have to allow you bail/bond, they DO NOT have to release you within 24 hours, and since they have no "right" they DO NOT have to make your trial a fair and speedy one.

 

I can talk to many Americans here and see how many of us get away with serious laws. It's all subjective. Mexicans are being imprisoned just like the Marine was.

 

I don't understand what your beef with this article is. Mexico didn't do anything wrong. They DO NOT have to give you a fair and speedy trial as it IS NOT a basic human right. They can detain you for as long as they want to.

 

"Do the crime, do the time"

Sorry, a typo. I meant 8 months. And the right to a fair and speedy trial IS NOT a basic human right according to the UN. Mexico did NOTHING wrong. We do it all the time to their drug smugglers.

 

And illegal immigration is something entirely different. They're breaking an immigration law, not a criminal law, so to speak. The marine broke a criminal law, he was arrested, detained, and released. They DO NOT have to allow you bail/bond, they DO NOT have to release you within 24 hours, and since they have no "right" they DO NOT have to make your trial a fair and speedy one.

 

I can talk to many Americans here and see how many of us get away with serious laws. It's all subjective. Mexicans are being imprisoned just like the Marine was.

 

I don't understand what your beef with this article is. Mexico didn't do anything wrong. They DO NOT have to give you a fair and speedy trial as it IS NOT a basic human right. They can detain you for as long as they want to.

 

"Do the crime, do the time"

crime

[ krīm ] 

 

noun

noun: crime · plural noun: crimes

1. an action or omission that constitutes an offense that may be prosecuted by the state and is punishable by law:
   "shoplifting was a serious crime"
   synonyms: offense · unlawful act · illegal act · felony · misdemeanor · 

   More
2. illegal activities:
   "the victims of crime"
   synonyms: lawbreaking · delinquency · wrongdoing · criminality · 

   More

    

    

Illegal immigrants are criminals.

 

My only problem with this article, is the fact that Mexico's law enforcement decides when it wants to enforce it's laws, and have twisted priorities. People have been wanted in Mexico for years, yet as soon as an American makes a humanly mistake that anyone else could have easily made, he's jailed. Mexico used his violation of the law, as a quick excuse to jail an American. The world has a very twisted and ignorant view of Americans, some thinking that Americans are known for being wealthy. Mexico did follow protocol(but how many times before this have they not?), but mainly because this man is an American. I can guarantee that this soldier was stopped, because of him being a foreigner. I'm also sure that the Police treated him like utter crap the entire time he remained in Mexico.

crime

[ krīm ]

noun

noun: crime · plural noun: crimes

• an action or omission that constitutes an offense that may be prosecuted by the state and is punishable by law:

  "shoplifting was a serious crime"

  synonyms: offense · unlawful act · illegal act · felony · misdemeanor ·

  More

• illegal activities:

  "the victims of crime"

  synonyms: lawbreaking · delinquency · wrongdoing · criminality ·

  More

Illegal immigrants are criminals.

My only problem with this article, is the fact that Mexico's law enforcement decides when it wants to enforce it's laws, and have twisted priorities. People have been wanted in Mexico for years, yet as soon as an American makes a humanly mistake that anyone else could have easily made, he's jailed. Mexico used his violation of the law, as a quick excuse to jail an American. The world has a very twisted and ignorant view of Americans, some thinking that Americans are known for being wealthy. Mexico did follow protocol(but how many times before this have they not?), but mainly because this man is an American. I can guarantee that this soldier was stopped, because of him being a foreigner. I'm also sure that the Police treated him like utter crap the entire time he remained in Mexico.

Those 2 crimes carry different statutes. Which is why they're heard in separate courts with separate rights.

And I really can't say anything more to you. Everyone here is seeing it this way but you. They've done nothing wrong. You sound like a conspiracy nut right now by saying they did it because he's an american. You have no proof of that whatsoever. They followed protocol and did nothing wrong. They do imprison their own people, but you're just choosing to look at it from a subjective point of view. Corrupt or not, the handling of this Marine was by the book and legal by way of the Mexican government. End of story, I resign myself from this debate.

Those 2 crimes carry different statutes. Which is why they're heard in separate courts with separate rights.

And I really can't say anything more to you. Everyone here is seeing it this way but you. They've done nothing wrong. You sound like a conspiracy nut right now by saying they did it because he's an american. You have no proof of that whatsoever. They followed protocol and did nothing wrong. They do imprison their own people, but you're just choosing to look at it from a subjective point of view. Corrupt or not, the handling of this Marine was by the book and legal by way of the Mexican government. End of story, I resign myself from this debate.

"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."

George S. Patton

"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."

George S. Patton

Not 100% true.

Not 100% true.

Anyone that fully understands the quote would agree that it's true most of the time. If everyone is thinking alike and sharing the same beliefs and opinions, then someone isn't thinking for them self, and speaking up about what they stand for. He states that everyone agrees except for me, that's because I'm standing up for my opinion. If I were to blindly agree, then I'd be the one who isn't thinking.

False. That's their written law. No corruption there. Marine's fault.

 

Holy fuck you enrage me.

Anyone that fully understands the quote would agree that it's true most of the time. If everyone is thinking alike and sharing the same beliefs and opinions, then someone isn't thinking for them self, and speaking up about what they stand for. He states that everyone agrees except for me, that's because I'm standing up for my opinion. If I were to blindly agree, then I'd be the one who isn't thinking.

You appear to be claiming that everyone disagreeing with you means that you're more likely to be correct. This is not really a justifiable assumption. It is entirely possible that many people, each independently thinking about the issue, all come to the same conclusion (in fact, you claim that exact thing is the case for the quote: according to you, it is inconceivable that someone could fully understand the quote and disagree. This is only in fact the case for tautologies, which that quote is not).

It's true that you're unlikely to be blindly agreeing if you oppose everyone else (it's certainly still possible, for all we know you could be repeating talking points from elsewhere, but I'm acting under the assumption that you're not). It does not then follow that your views are somehow better than the majority's; at most, you have some people in the majority not really thinking, but you certainly do not have everyone in the majority not really thinking.

EDIT: If you are instead saying "everyone disagreeing with me doesn't mean I'm necessarily wrong, because some of those people are likely not expressing reasoned views", then I misunderstood you, and no argument with that point.

 

Holy fuck you enrage me.

That was a singularly non-constructive addition to this thread. Please actually respond to people with something besides swearing and saying they annoy you; at the very least, give some reason why they annoy you.

You appear to be claiming that everyone disagreeing with you means that you're more likely to be correct. This is not really a justifiable assumption. It is entirely possible that many people, each independently thinking about the issue, all come to the same conclusion (in fact, you claim that exact thing is the case for the quote: according to you, it is inconceivable that someone could fully understand the quote and disagree. This is only in fact the case for tautologies, which that quote is not).

It's true that you're unlikely to be blindly agreeing if you oppose everyone else (it's certainly still possible, for all we know you could be repeating talking points from elsewhere, but I'm acting under the assumption that you're not). It does not then follow that your views are somehow better than the majority's; at most, you have some people in the majority not really thinking, but you certainly do not have everyone in the majority not really thinking.

EDIT: If you are instead saying "everyone disagreeing with me doesn't mean I'm necessarily wrong, because some of those people are likely not expressing reasoned views", then I misunderstood you, and no argument with that point.

 

That was a singularly non-constructive addition to this thread. Please actually respond to people with something besides swearing and saying they annoy you; at the very least, give some reason why they annoy you.

This is exactly what I mean. Pavelow made it seem as if I was incorrect, simply because nobody agrees with me

Edited November 3, 201411 yr by CriminalKillaz

Holy fuck you enrage me.

 

We got a major badass here, folks!

This is exactly what I mean. Pavelow made it seem as if I was incorrect, simply because nobody agrees with me

 

I'm back in this topic now, since people are gonna quote me behind my back and attack what I said and not have the balls to say it directly to me. 

 

All I meant when I said that, is the majority of the people in this topic that have contributed, are trying to get you to see the same thing I've been trying to do. This isn't a topic that's open to interpretation. He broke a written law, and was held within all legal bounds of the Mexican government. End of story. If you want to go off on another tangent specifically about corruption in Mexico, I highly suggest you make a new, separate topic.

We got a major badass here, folks!

 

I'm back in this topic now, since people are gonna quote me behind my back and attack what I said and not have the balls to say it directly to me. 

 

All I meant when I said that, is the majority of the people in this topic that have contributed, are trying to get you to see the same thing I've been trying to do. This isn't a topic that's open to interpretation. He broke a written law, and was held within all legal bounds of the Mexican government. End of story. If you want to go off on another tangent specifically about corruption in Mexico, I highly suggest you make a new, separate topic.

 

Agreed, if you want to talk about corruption look at Nigeria and Sudan, Mexico is nowhere near as bad as them.