Hastings

Like the truck. Looks like our riot vans and jail transports. A reason to learn modding so I can roleplay as a omon officer stumping peaceful protesters on the Red Square.

Power misuse, data manipulation and expunging of information? Communist team so communist. Ein.

Well, if there's anything you would like to know I would be pleased to do my best to answer your questions. Yes, the topic swayed way off the original post (i wonder if that phrase even makes sense for english speakers lol). But remains interesting nevertheless I think.

Am I experiencing a time lag or this is a new thread?...

Our president says that hill historically belongs to Russia, so well-equipped and armed to the teeth people that certainly have nothing to do with the Russian military took control over it and held a referendum. The hill joins Russia. My hill.

That's what I want to do as well. I'm interested in foreign policing and the US probably maintains one of the most interestingly organized police in the world. I only recently engaged in conversations with actual LEOs and realised how little I actually knew about the topic.

I think I can look it up, it wasn't that long ago. It'll just have to wait till the end of my shift. News articles can hardly be a source of any reliable info on their own, I would never argue with this. But I'm honestly out of options with proofs here, taking the language barrier into account. The only way I see it is I firstly provide you with the legal background and afterwards with its practical implementation reflected in videos and news. Please keep in mind that police training only 26 years ago was a state secret, and they are still reluctant to make public too many info. Even the document I linked is for internal use only (that is why I didn't link the latest version, it was amended in 2013 when militsya became police). If you can think of more convincing proofs I would do my best to provide them. Just to clarify one more time: I'm not trying to say some police force is more qualified than other, or tell how American police should do their job (at least since our crime rates are not in Russia's favor). I deeply respect American police and don't think that I would be qualified to do the job they do.

Yes, they receive training. No, they usually are not super badass whatever. With regard to the proofs here's what I got: for the drive-buy I can offer you actual dashcam pursuit recordings. If memory serves me correctly I offered those before but you turned the offer down with a wonderful 'I don't care what is in those videos it doesn't prove anything'. Under the Federal Law "On Police", article 19, a police officer must, while using a firearm, cause as little harm to the suspect as possible. Under Art. 23 a police officer has no right to shoot to kill while dealing with certain suspects but can use the weapon otherwise. Pursuant to the said law has been adopted a firearms training manual for the Internal Affairs personnel by the order of the Ministry of Internal Affairs dated 11.09.2000, with a detailed description of handgun exercises No. 8 (requires to hit a moving target from a moving vehicle), No. 10 (requires to hit an arm with the weapon of a target). It's in Russian, of course. I don't think you would trust my translation but surely there must be a person around you who can translate this. http://www.alppp.ru/law/bezopasnost-i-ohrana-pravoporjadka/29/prikaz-mvd-rf-ot-11-09-2000--955.pdf And of course there are plenty of news articles describing how police officers use firearms to hit limbs. But for some reason I already am sure you would dismiss all of it. I wonder why is it so hard to believe somewhere people might do things differently.

Some random pics to wake the topic up. Franklin County SO, Ohio. Lexington PD, Kentucky BCHP

A great car with great lights an a perfect uniform. A rare sight!

Reality is you can't do something because you are poorly trained, but instead of admitting this you sorta go 10-year-old here and scream in anger. I thought you do have some knowledge and/or experience on topic, hence I tried to explain my thoughts. Clearly, my opinion was wrong. Someone who can't cope with a different opinion on the Internet, can't possibly have anything to do with the profession that involves interactions with real people. Au revoir.

Yep, that's exactly what I hear. Well, as a standard procedure Russian police is trained to shoot tires of a moving vehicle from a moving vehicle. They also are trained to shoot limbs to minimize the damage to suspects, and they do it quite often, facing subjects armed with axes and/or multiple unarmed suspects. Part of my training during army firearms course also involved less lethal firearms usage. Standard Russian army and police firearms are 9mm Makarov pistol and AK74SU. My point is that if in your country that isn't done it doesn't mean it's impossible. You're free to draw conclusions. Boy.

Not completely. It's an echo of a long lasting argument regarding less lethal firearms usage. I'm being told shooting arms or legs is impossible and/or extremely dangerous therefore police is trained to shoot to the center of mass. Amongst other arguments I hear "easy to miss, so bystanders are at threat" - true to an extent, but there's always a chance of a miss, in fact if you read police shootings reports there are often only 2-3 hits out of 10 shots; "you can't be that accurate with a handgun"; and finally "a shot in the leg can damage the artery and the person will die quickly". That's the one that amazes me. Ultimately it all goes down to the less lethal usage of force.

Some people complain that even Albo's court system in Drug Runners is too much :D Implementation might be a problem here, would you like people to look the paragraphs up online, or to provide an extract from CA code?

I like that logic :D Tasers might not always be lethal so we'd rather shoot'em up. Same goes with legs/arms shot, can't recall how many times I heard "oh man, if you hit a leg the person might die due to the artery damage, so we take headshots".

Cops in the states are killed eating lunch in their cars. It's hard to me to name another (civilized) country on Earth there cops die that often. Even considering our Northern Caucasus. So yeah, I see why US cops laugh hearing about being calm and non-lethal. At the same time I can't recall a single cop being rude or authoritative with me... Even when I was held at gunpoint on North Ave and Druid Hill at 2 a.m. He was like 'Please, sir, hands in the air', and I was like 'as you wish my dear sir' and we parted ways fully satisfied with each other :D

The US mentality towards firearms in general is itself an endless topic for discussion. I don't know why but I approve it. Probably because Russians and Americans have similar wild violent mentalities, unlike you gentle European people :D Guns are cool. But on the other side I do like the way UK cops work. My ideal of patrolmen is an unarmed but highly trained dud who knows everyone on his beat and everyone knows him, who old ladies invite for a cup of tea and mothers ask to talk some sense into stupid young children. But that's XIX century, I'm afraid. Damn.

I'm aware of all of this, I'm merely interested in the legal aspect of firearms usage since the Police and Criminal Evidence Act and such do not provide an explicit answer and, based on your replies, I believe you're familiar with the law.

Just curious, in case a suspect is actively trying to get a hold on the service weapon what does British law say on the firearms usage? In my country this is one of several reasons for weapon usage, for example.

In all honesty, that chunk of metal doesn't look much better than vanilla bus..

Well, you live there, so you know better. For myself I can only say I've been sending resumes for full 4 months before they hired me on my present job. Lawyers are, like, not needed generally, especially when economy is in recession like it is now. What is your degree, by the way, if I may ask? Not looking to compare and all, just curious. Oh, and by the way -- the companies won't do better if you force them with a law to hire everyone or to pat higher salaries or whatever. They'll simply leave the market, and this in turn will cripple the tax base which in turn will impede the government spending, as I'm sure you know. Right now it's a two-way road. You either make businesses' life easy by repealing the legislation which obstructs them -- and they WILL hire because they'll start expanding and growing. Or you do it the old Soviet way, regulate everything to the top (and possibly nationalize eventually). You'll have guaranteed work for everyone, like it was in the USSR. But at the same time in the USSR my parents lived in an apartment shared by 4 other families (14 people altogether) and they salary was paid with food sometimes.

Lower gun crime, much higher violent crime and murders. On the other hand, to have a cop killed or injured is an extremely rare occurrence (unfortunately this is on the rise too). And a massive amount of financial and organised crime. Several key financial crimes like money laundering aren't even prosecuted, for 10 years there's like 15 cases. Forgot to add about the salary. It's around 700 USD in large cities, which is Ok, Russian average salary is 400-500 USD, but still not enough for 10H shifts and all the bullshit police takes. Slightly better in the military (up to 1000) and in the Investigative Committee. The latter has cool blue uniform and golden stripes as a bonus. Yeah, a good professional will always find a job. Those with majors in women studies and gender science will probably not. I wonder exactly how many math and science students participated in those protests... Thinking of one's future comes in many shapes. Like, I thought about my future when I enrolled. Right now I have a bit of useful work experience, including military and law enforcement, and work for an international company -- and this all during 200% inflation and employment crisis in Russia -- without a single police car burnt down by me. I was lucky as hell, no shit, by I also did some actual investments in my future. And yeah, I'm even not that good professional.

News From The Other Side of The Oil Curtain, that's always fun to read. Poor French, the capitalism is knocking on their office doors. I can understand their anger. How did that Independent article say? "Unions and students". Oy vey, that's truly the most hardworking and productive population groups... Oups, got distracted again. (in all seriousness though, if a party in the Parliament is blocking the bill then it should stay blocked, that's the democratic procedure. Plus it will contribute to the demise of Europe, and make our generals happy). Meanwhile in our socialist Russia - part of the Europe, isn't it? - (there the employment law, is, actually, astonishingly pro-employee, thanks to the Reds for that, but is violated almost completely, thanks to the same people) no one riots against the government. Because if you will, you might find yourself far away, surrounded by bears and Corrections personnel. It's always good to have true Socialist dictatorship instead of that European democracy. However as far as the protection of the police goes, we suck at it. Even in neighboring Poland it's better. Out here there's definitely no that fancy American things. I always laugh seeing discussions on foreign forums re what gun to buy, how many cuffs to carry, and whether CVPI is better than Charger. You carry what you're given, you wear what you're told to, and you drive a 10-y.o. car and pay for fuel out of your pocket. Don't forget that when you screw up, you'll end up conveniently fired from the force the day before you screw up (in Russia all police and such personnel submit their resignation applications with no date, so the brass could put in whichever date is convenient).

Like Hystery said. I don't know about the UK, but Russian insurance legislation is like 'everything your insurance guys want, and please don't worry, you won't ever have to pay'. A lot of exemptions from the insurance. A lot of reasons for them to decline payment. In a general commercial contract it's up to the parties to develop terms of contract. But the insurance contract terms are written down in the code. It makes sense if you live in a socialist society where everything is done how the government tells you, but it's like you know free market and all that, no? When God was creating the world He must have mistakenly created the insurance companies first.