Jump to content
downcoldkiller

Alton Sterling officer involved shooting

Recommended Posts

It seems like this is becoming a more common thing, I don't know what to think. Is it the media coverage? Is it happening more often? What is the deal? Recently there was another officer involved shooting resulting in the loss of a life. For those who may not of heard of it here's a story: http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/06/us/baton-rouge-shooting-alton-sterling/index.html 

Things are still very early so its going to be hard to form opinions right now. However I want to get peoples first impressions in the early stages because those tend to be the most raw form before they are changed with different news reports and such. Ill go ahead and give mine, please bare in mind that I am just a neutral party simplify stating what I think about the event and such events in the past. So here goes nothing...

First off let me start by saying I am a very hard facts type of guy, I like reading actual reports, viewing video from the event, and reading news stories (however don't let the news sway me too much because I know the nature of their job.) I like seeing solid proof of such things if they are brought up. For example the JFK shooting, people often talk about the ballistics when it comes to that event. For me I will believe something if it can be shown in writing in the form of a report of formal document. That's just the type of person I am. So with that being said my opinion of things right now is going to be very different than say a few months down the road when the investigation closes. Okay let me get to the point...

I will say, I've seen the video(s). Right now I believe there are only two, one being from someone outside maybe 2ft away and another from a different angle in a vehicle. However with the vehicle video, when the first shot is fired the camera ducks behind a door or under the dash so its hard to get a good view of anything after that. With the other video with the bystander standing back, there is an officer in the way so its hard to see key areas that would drive some of my opinions, especially when the idea of a weapon coming into the mix.

Here's what I know so far, and that's why I would like to see what other people have heard/read/seen. Alton was stopped after officers responded to a 911 call of a man with a weapon outside the food mart where the event took place, a confrontation took place, and he ended up on the floor in a struggle with two officers. From what ive heard either one or both were wearing body cams. In the video you can hear and officer yell "GUN GUN GUN GUN" and see the officer blocking the camera draw his weapon and aim down on Alton. From what I've heard there was a weapon present on his person, but whether he was going for it or making any kind of movies to it, I'm not sure. You can hear the officer give him commands then shots are fired, when the camera angles back toward the struggle you see one officer on the ground with his weapon aimed at Alton, who is clearly bleeding from the chest. The video cuts out shortly after the officers call shots fired and what happens next is unknown to me. According to reports the 911 call stated that someone was "brandishing a firearm, not pointing it at anyone" so I would guess the officers are already on high alert with reports of a fire arm being present. According to the store owner, who says Alton was a nice man and had permission to be at the store had never been in any fights or caused a problem. A taser was reported to have been used before the final line of drawing the firearm and resulting in deadly force.

So here's my two cents about the situation. Keep in mind I am not a law enforcement officer nor am I knowledgeable of the laws governing use of force in that state or the local policies in place for that department. I am only knowledgeable in different use of force policies in my area which are some what universal I would assume. So Alton is taken to the ground, there's the first use of force I have seen so far, what justifies him being taken to the ground I'm unaware of but I believe we will soon learn that. I would assume that at this point the officers want to place cuffs on Alton. Whether he was under arrest at that point or he was simply going to be detained I am also unaware of. I do know that with reports of a firearm being present in the situation it would've been normal to pat someone down for weapons. Could this have led to the confrontation or was it something else? During the struggle an officer yells gun, at that point a fellow officer draws his weapon and gives Alton commands not to move. I feel this is pretty universally understood that if an officer sees or feels a weapon on you that their weapons are gonna come out. For those who want to say "why didn't they use a taser?" apparently according to the owner that option was exhausted already. So what led to the shooting? Well who really knows at this point, obviously there was a weapon present on his person because it was taken off of him after shots were fired. Was excessive force used? Well I think the only time that could come into question would be when he is taken to the ground. In the video angle in the vehicle as well as in still photos from the event, the officer takes Alton to the ground almost in what looks like a body slam type of way. In the video you see him hit the hood of a silver vehicle parked in the parking lot before falling to the ground with the officer on top. At this point I would assume cuffs were going to be put on. Also I would assume this is when the weapon would've been seen, or maybe the officer felt the weapon and Alton got scared and put his hand on it to keep the officer away. I'm hoping for those who will follow this investigation that good things will come of it. I would like to see the officers held accountable for their actions if there is found to be wrong doing. However I hope that with the conclusion of the investigation if the Justice Dept finds that no wrong doing was done that the public will accept that and instead of cause a problem. Similar to that in Ferguson, that instead we learn from this event. Put measures in place to prevent them, and we educate those who wish to have it so we can all be better citizens to our nation, our community, and ourselves.

Please, please, please comment with your options and findings. I love to hear from others. Remember knowledge is the best weapon. Arm yourself to be the best. 

Also, I will not post the link to any of the videos due to their graphic content. Feel free to post them in the comments below.

 

Thank you,

Downcoldkiller

Please keep in mind, any fowl comments, or offensive content will be reported and removed. Don't shame anyone for their opinion. You never know, someone might not agree with yours.


--PM RULES--
--Do not--
  • Ask about Non-Els
  • Ask about time frames for model release
  • Ask me to beta test my models
  • Request's

--Do--

  • Report bugs or other issues
  • Report credit issues
  • Ask other simple non-request questions

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's really too early to draw any conclusion. I am, in all honesty, worried for my friends who currently live in Baton Rouge. Why? It's because violent riots and the decimation of parts of the city is imminent, much like Baltimore, Ferguson, and Chicago. If the officers were in any wrong doing, they should be prosecuted. Hopefully it's before anything violent sparks. I have never supported BLM, and I never will, but I don't want that to sound like a bias when I say that the group has a certain tendency to exaggerate. I won't be taking anything they say into consideration . I'll wait for the police department to say something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, tanu1215 said:

It's really too early to draw any conclusion. I am, in all honesty, worried for my friends who currently live in Baton Rouge. Why? It's because violent riots and the decimation of parts of the city is imminent, much like Baltimore, Ferguson, and Chicago. If the officers were in any wrong doing, they should be prosecuted. Hopefully it's before anything violent sparks. I have never supported BLM, and I never will, but I don't want that to sound like a bias when I say that the group has a certain tendency to exaggerate. I won't be taking anything they say into consideration . I'll wait for the police department to say something.

I completely agree with that you said 100%. If there is wrong doing than hopefully it will be found and the right actions what ever they may be are taken. I also agree with your statement that yes it is still very early in this investigation to tell really what happened. Videos are good and bad in ways that they offer better support to what someone might be claiming, but they also can distort what really happened 5, 10, even 15 minutes before they started rolling. I hope for a clear and transparent investigation like the mayor has said we will be getting. We need to rebuild the trust with officers and the community because those who are unaware and uneducated on different things tend to be scared of what they don't know. We'll all have to sit back and see what happens.


--PM RULES--
--Do not--
  • Ask about Non-Els
  • Ask about time frames for model release
  • Ask me to beta test my models
  • Request's

--Do--

  • Report bugs or other issues
  • Report credit issues
  • Ask other simple non-request questions

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll wait for the DOJ to finish their investigation before I have a full opinion of the shooting, but I believe these cops are gonna get fucked in one way or another. Even if they're cleared in the investigation, they can't work in that city anymore. Their names are already released, and the media started this narrative of racism & corruption, because the cops were white and the suspect was black, and their bodycams fell off (Making people think the cops were covering it up). And in a city with a big black demographic, there's a good chance of riots. The average person and media outlet will see only see the image of 2 white cops, pinning down and "executing" a black man. So this is not gonna end well for those officers, and the city.

From what I can see from the video, I think it's justified(we can't see his right hand, and they retrieved a pistol from his right pocket). Sadly the point of views we have, give us a limited view of the things that prompted the shooting. 

Edited by Black Jesus

YouTube:Black Jesus                                                   

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Black Jesus said:

I'll wait for the DOJ to finish their investigation before I have a full opinion of the shooting, but I believe these cops are gonna get fucked in one way or another. Even if they're cleared in the investigation, they can't work in that city anymore. Their names are already released, and the media started this narrative of racism & corruption, because the cops were white and the suspect was black, and their bodycams fell off (Making people think the cops were covering it up). And in a city with a big black demographic, there's a good chance of riots. The average person and media outlet will see only see the image of 2 white cops, pinning down and "executing" a black man. So this is not gonna end well for those officers, and the city.

From what I can see from the video, I think it's justified(we can't see his right hand, and they retrieved a pistol from his right pocket). Sadly the point of views we gave, give us a limited view of the things that prompted the shooting. 

Good points yet again, we can't see his hands. In either video, nor do we know what led to the different events. I think we could all say that in a normal situation the cameras wouldn't have come out. Something must of sparked the interest of these people to record. Waiting till the end for your final opinion definitely will be the best option.

 


--PM RULES--
--Do not--
  • Ask about Non-Els
  • Ask about time frames for model release
  • Ask me to beta test my models
  • Request's

--Do--

  • Report bugs or other issues
  • Report credit issues
  • Ask other simple non-request questions

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At the beginning of the video, we see the two officers standing and talking with the man. Then one officer lunges and bear hugs him, and they take him down to the ground. If they thought he was a guy threatening people with a gun, why did they handle the situation like that? This is just speculation, but it seems like that's not what caused the altercation. 

The most important fact, that still hasn't been cleared up, is whether or not he had a gun and posed a threat. I think Louisana is an open carry state, which only complicates the matter. There is the possibility that Sterling was legally carrying his firearm, which would make it eerily similar to another shooting of a black man that just happened today.

I think BLM, while well-meaning, is a little early with the protesting. I would've waited for more information before organizing protests. Depending on the facts that we'll learn soon, this is either a brutal murder of a man by two cops, or two cops narrowly escaping being shot while subduing an armed suspect. It can go either way. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There isn't enough information to go off of and just like pretty much every shooting that is happening people are getting outraged before they even know what is happening. BLM is only protesting because a black man got shot and that is my problem with that movement. They automatically assume that if a black man is shot by the police it is because the police were racist and felt like murdering a black man that day. If black lives truly mattered to them they would be protesting all the black men who are killed by other black men across the country on a more regular basis than police shootings.

I don't see why these officers would just randomly decide to yell "GUN GUN GUN!" and shoot a guy for no reason, however, I'm sure a thorough investigation will be conducted and appropriate action will be taken. Unfortunately for these officers and other officers who have shot black men they have already been determined to be guilty by the American public and no amount of evidence will clear their names.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, l3ubba said:

There isn't enough information to go off of and just like pretty much every shooting that is happening people are getting outraged before they even know what is happening. BLM is only protesting because a black man got shot and that is my problem with that movement. They automatically assume that if a black man is shot by the police it is because the police were racist and felt like murdering a black man that day. If black lives truly mattered to them they would be protesting all the black men who are killed by other black men across the country on a more regular basis than police shootings.

I don't see why these officers would just randomly decide to yell "GUN GUN GUN!" and shoot a guy for no reason, however, I'm sure a thorough investigation will be conducted and appropriate action will be taken. Unfortunately for these officers and other officers who have shot black men they have already been determined to be guilty by the American public and no amount of evidence will clear their names.

 
 

Some people are claiming that one of the officers actually planted the gun into his pocket during the scuffle on the ground, then shouted "GUN" and prompted the shooting. I had to close out of my Facebook tab because the amount of ignorance and straight up stupidity I see in those top comments with 40K likes are outrageous.

Edited by TheDivineHustle

It takes a particularly intelligent person to hold a civilized political discussion with someone on the opposite side. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TheDivineHustle said:

Some people are claiming that one of the officers actually planted the gun into his pocket during the scuffle on the ground, then shouted "GUN" and prompted the shooting. I had to close out of my Facebook tab because the amount of ignorance and straight up stupidity I see in those top comments with 40K likes are outrageous.

Facebook is the breeding ground for people like that 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, TheSandwichStealer said:

Always wait until an investigation is complete before making an opinion. 

Try telling that to Black Lives Matter.


It takes a particularly intelligent person to hold a civilized political discussion with someone on the opposite side. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, TheDivineHustle said:

Try telling that to Black Lives Matter.

There was an article on Facebook that had the nerve to say the BLM was doing a peaceful protest, but they were blocking the street. :/


"Micheal, Micheal Micheal, what would you do without me?"

 

- Trevor Phillips. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, TheSandwichStealer said:

There was an article on Facebook that had the nerve to say the BLM was doing a peaceful protest, but they were blocking the street. :/

That's a peaceful protest. An annoying one, but peaceful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, TheSandwichStealer said:

There was an article on Facebook that had the nerve to say the BLM was doing a peaceful protest, but they were blocking the street. :/

Were they hurting you by blocking a street?

While I agree that BLM is a little quick to the trigger on protesting, this protest is peaceful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, thegreathah said:

Were they hurting you by blocking a street?

While I agree that BLM is a little quick to the trigger on protesting, this protest is peaceful.

 

13 minutes ago, thegreathah said:

Were they hurting you by blocking a street?

While I agree that BLM is a little quick to the trigger on protesting, this protest is peaceful.

As long as they aren't blocking people from going to work and other things, then I guess it's okay. 


"Micheal, Micheal Micheal, what would you do without me?"

 

- Trevor Phillips. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, thegreathah said:

Were they hurting you by blocking a street?

While I agree that BLM is a little quick to the trigger on protesting, this protest is peaceful.

 
 
 
 

It's more so because of the fact that blocking the street is asinine. People are trying to get to work. People are trying to get to their kids at school. People are trying to get home to their families. How do you know that a Nurse wasn't on call and on their way to the Hospital, now they're stuck in traffic because of a protest? How do you know that an ambulance wasn't on that interstate trying to get to a Hospital, and now it can't move because of a protest? How do you know that a mother or father isn't trying to get to their kids at a daycare center, and now they're being charged a fee for arriving late?

When these protest groups senselessly decide to march out onto the interstate and disrupt the traffic flow, that only pisses people off. There are plenty of videos where these BLM groups go out and block the road; nothing is accomplished. A lot of times people will actually get out of their vehicles and tell the BLM protesters blocking the road that they do agree with their cause, but are pissed off that they're blocking the road. You aren't hurting the Police when you block traffic, you're hurting the thousands of Americans trying to commute. It's just foolish altogether, and I don't support any form of protest that inconveniences innocent people trying to live their lives. You can protest, but don't block the road. It's just stupid.

When you block the road, you're opening yourself to getting run over. People have places that they need to be, it's not a joke. It's serious, and not everyone is going to sit there and wait.

"Fuck the Police, but let's get the license plate of the car that hit us and give it to the Police".

 

Edited by TheDivineHustle

It takes a particularly intelligent person to hold a civilized political discussion with someone on the opposite side. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TheSandwichStealer said:

 

As long as they aren't blocking people from going to work and other things, then I guess it's okay. 

They usually do, just like when they did it on the Bay Bridge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, TheDivineHustle said:

Not a legal one though.

Effective protests usually aren't. Rosa Parks broke the law (not to draw a comparison, but you get the point).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Riley24 said:

Effective protests usually aren't. Rosa Parks broke the law (not to draw a comparison, but you get the point).

There's a difference. There's a fine line between going out onto the interstate and blocking innocent Americans from commuting, and peacefully, independently, and conveniently protesting an absurd racial law. Rosa Parks didn't hurt or affect a soul when she refused to get up from her seat. She did exactly what she should have been allowed to do, which was grab a seat anywhere on the bus. Standing in the middle of the interstate isn't comparable. Her protest wasn't legal because the laws were outrageous during that period of time against people of color. These aren't the same circumstances.

 


It takes a particularly intelligent person to hold a civilized political discussion with someone on the opposite side. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, TheDivineHustle said:

There's a difference. There's a fine line between going out onto the interstate and blocking innocent Americans from commuting, and peacefully, independently, and conveniently protesting an absurd racial law. Rosa Parks didn't hurt or affect a soul when she refused to get up from her seat. She did exactly what she should have been allowed to do, which was grab a seat anywhere on the bus. Standing in the middle of the interstate isn't comparable. Her protest wasn't legal because the laws were outrageous during that period of time against people of color. These aren't the same circumstances.

 

Hence why I said not to draw a comparison. My point was that whether or not protesting is legal or not is largely irrelevant. Its Civil Disobedience.

And as awful as the riots were in Ferguson, do you really think the FBI would already be talking about an investigation into this shooting had it not been for the extreme protests? No way. A local DA would've take the side of the cops and declined to pursue charges right off the bat, and this shooting would've been swept under the rug. BLM is starting to get results, and our justice system is just starting to reform itself. That's a great thing, and whether or not people are late to work isn't nearly as important as that.

But I'm not taking the sides of the protesters blocking traffic. its a dumb and annoying thing to do. It doesn't lead anyone to support the movement, it just agitates them and makes them less receptive to the message. But please don't forget that method and message are different things. Some OWS protestors somewhere may have done some dumb shit, but does that mean Wall Street is A-okay? No way.

Edited by Riley24

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

'Peaceful' protest in Dallas just resulted in multiple officers being shot. 

--

Alton Sterling was reaching for his pocket, where the gun he was illegally in possession of was. You can see him reaching for it before they shoot. What should they've done? Tase him? They already did that, and it had no effect. I'd love for you to be fighting with someone with a gun and then say what you they should've done. Sure is easy to monday morning quarterback when you aren't the one in the situation. It wasn't a coincidence that the police were there either. They were there because multiple people said he pointed a gun at them.

Off topic a bit, but there was a more recent officer involved shooting. This is regarding the Castile shooting, in my home state Minnesota, the one that was live streamed on Facebook. I have seen so many people chime in, and black lives matter try to weaponize this. Well, you could not even see what happened. The video started after the incident occurred. There was another officer involved shooting here (Minnesota) in November, where the witness there said that the male was handcuffed when he was shot. That was not at all the case, but what sparked from that was pure chaos. BLM took the opportunity and ran with it. They blocked off major freeways during rush hour, not allowing parents to pick up their kids from school, daycare, etc. Not allowing emergency vehicles to get to dying people, fires, etc. What actually happened was that Jamar Clark assaulted his girlfriend so badly that she needed paramedics to assist her. Prior to police arriving Jamar Clark had fled the scene. Jamar had returned to the area and was confronting paramedics and disrupting their ability to render aid. When police arrived a fight ensued, and Jamar grabbed one of the Officer's guns, refusing to let go. 

So before we all go crazy and crucify the Officers involved, let's hold off and at the very least wait for some more evidence to surface. Because Alton Sterling did not get shot for selling CDs. To put forth that narrative is dishonest, just as 'hands up don't shoot' was dishonest.

Edited by McAwesome6934

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Riley24 said:

Hence why I said not to draw a comparison. My point was that whether or not protesting is legal or not is largely irrelevant. Its Civil Disobedience.

And as awful as the riots were in Ferguson, do you really think the FBI would already be talking about an investigation into this shooting had it not been for the extreme protests? No way. A local DA would've take the side of the cops and declined to pursue charges right off the bat, and this shooting would've been swept under the rug. BLM is starting to get results, and our justice system is just starting to reform itself. That's a great thing, and whether or not people are late to work isn't nearly as important as that.

 
 

BLM is getting results because it claims that any police related shooting involving blacks is a result of racism. When BLM doesn't get what they want, they go trash things and attack the Police. 

People getting to work late is definitely important. It may not be important in relevance to the results that you hope to see within the justice system, but it's important to peoples financial stability; and declaring that it doesn't matter is inconsiderate and rude.

When you go out and do things such as block the interstate, you lose the support of people. I know countless people that believe the justice system needs to be reformed, but also think that BLM is a completely retarded organization.

Edited by TheDivineHustle

It takes a particularly intelligent person to hold a civilized political discussion with someone on the opposite side. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, TheDivineHustle said:

BLM is getting results because it claims that any police related shooting involving blacks is a result of racism. When BLM doesn't get what they want, they go trash things and attack the Police. 

People getting to work late is definitely important. It may not be important in relevance to the results that you hope to see within the justice system, but it's important to peoples financial stability.

When you go out and do things such as block the interstate, you lose the support of people. I know countless people that believe the justice system needs to be reformed, but also think that BLM is a completely retarded organization.

I never said it wasn't important, I just think that reforming the justice system is more important. And I think you saw the last paragraph I added, so I think we're on the same page. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Riley24 said:

I never said it wasn't important, I just think that reforming the justice system is more important. And I think you saw the last paragraph I added, so I think we're on the same page. 

 
 

Yes, I don't have any problem with reforming the justice system. I'm not defending the system. I'm simply stating that blocking the interstate in itself just isn't the way to go. There are other, better ways to protest.

Edited by TheDivineHustle

It takes a particularly intelligent person to hold a civilized political discussion with someone on the opposite side. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...