This is why in Europe we don't want to have a career in law enforcement. Because we can't do shit to protect ourselves and others. Same goes in Italy too. We don't have half of the tools american police has. It's depressing really. 

This happened in France during a protest for work wages or something similar I believe, and black block were there. 
Watch your six and of your fellow officers.

 

2 minutes ago, LtRob said:

This happened in France during a protest for work wages or something similar I believe, and black block were there. 
Watch your six and of your fellow officers.

This happened during a protest for a law breaking down our entire working system, a law that was passed by force by our government against all democratic system, just like any dictatorship would. Those protests happen here because people are tired and want change, and people are tired of the police brutality we've been facing lately. Search on Google and you'll find HUNDRED of cases of police brutality just for the last few weeks. Don't judge on one single video when you actually ignore what is truly happening here.

8 minutes ago, Hystery said:

This happened during a protest for a law breaking down our entire working system, a law that was passed by force by our government against all democratic system, just like any dictatorship would. Those protests happen here because people are tired and want change, and people are tired of the police brutality we've been facing lately. Search on Google and you'll find HUNDRED of cases of police brutality just for the last few weeks. Don't judge on one single video when you actually ignore what is truly happening here.

So you're justifying what happened in the video, wow, I didn't expect that in this website. Payed less than what a bricklayer gets and have to face this crap. Too bad I can't be explicit in this forum.

23 minutes ago, LtRob said:

So you're justifying what happened in the video, wow, I didn't expect that in this website. Payed less than what a bricklayer gets and have to face this crap. Too bad I can't be explicit in this forum.

Did I say I justify it? Can you quote me where I exactly say I justify it or condone it? You can't, because I didn't. Second time in two posts you're quick to judge. Right now on what I just said, and before on ONE event you've seen on ONE video, without taking into account the whole context around it. I'll quote myself on what I said in one of my status updates.

Spoiler

Long story short (but actually long nonetheless):

For a law to be applied, it has to follow a certain path. First, it reaches the parliament, for deputies to vote for or against it. If the law is defavorably voted, it is modified to fit the parliament better. If it is favorably voted, it moves to the Senate. Then it's up to the Senate to say its word and vote for or against it. If it's favorably voted, it moves back to the parliament for a final vote, and then the president has to sign the law for it to be applied and effective.

The thing is, in our constitution, there's a beautiful article called 49-3, which allows the government to 'engage its responsibility'. That means that the law can automatically bypass the parliament and move on to the senate, without any vote from any member of the parliament. The parliament however can sign a motion of censure and, if it is favorably voted by 50% of the parliament, the law is thrown to the bin and the government has to step down.

In the last 4 years, it's been used twice already, for the same law, first for it to move to the senate and then when it came back for the second voting at the parliament. It was a law supposed to improve our economy. All it did was making it worse, on top of having ecologic consequences.

Yesterday, the government yet again used the article 49-3 to force the law to pass and bypass yet again the parliament, for a neoliberal law that literally no one wants (71% of the population is against it to be exact). It includes many things like the ability for a company to fire people more easily, sometimes even without a decent reason, it lowers the pension in case someone is fired, it increases the legal time of work (up to 60h/week if the boss says so), it decreases the minimum time of leisure for employees on their private time, and so on.

So, basically, our government is forcing laws, against the population and its opinion, without a single vote at any point, and brutally takes our democracy in doggystyle. Sometimes I feel like democracy is just a vast joke and is just a camouflaged dictatorship.

With links that you actually should read before going all out "Policing in Europe sucks lol":

• http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36261852
• http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/french-labour-law-government-forced-to-use-emergency-powers-to-push-through-controversial-changes-by-a7023371.html
• http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/french-government-narrowly-escapes-no-confidence-move-from-rebels/42148464
• https://winteroak.org.uk/acorn/resources/night-of-rage-across-france/

Oh, also, did you know that many of the people you see wearing masks or people you can see the face of are extreme-right activists trying to ruin the pacific protests by acting violent? Oh, and also, did you know that many of the people you see wearing masks are actually cops undercover following orders from higher ranks to ruin the pacific protests by acting violent? How I know it? My father is a police officer. Hundreds of cases of police brutality happened. Even the UN recently said French police is too quick to use force. Not saying it's right to burn cop cars, especially since they're paid with my taxes, but the situation has to be taken into a whole to be understood and criticized.

So, let me reiterate what I said earlier: Don't judge on one single video when you actually ignore what is truly happening here.

Edited May 19, 20169 yr by Hystery

2 minutes ago, Hystery said:

Did I say I justify it? Can you quote me where I exactly say I justify it or condone it? You can't, because I didn't. Second time in two posts you're quick to judge. Right now on what I just said, and before on ONE event you've seen on ONE video, without taking into account the whole context around it. I'll quote myself on what I said in one of my status updates.

  Hide contents

Long story short (but actually long nonetheless):

For a law to be applied, it has to follow a certain path. First, it reaches the parliament, for deputies to vote for or against it. If the law is defavorably voted, it is modified to fit the parliament better. If it is favorably voted, it moves to the Senate. Then it's up to the Senate to say its word and vote for or against it. If it's favorably voted, it moves back to the parliament for a final vote, and then the president has to sign the law for it to be applied and effective.

The thing is, in our constitution, there's a beautiful article called 49-3, which allows the government to 'engage its responsibility'. That means that the law can automatically bypass the parliament and move on to the senate, without any vote from any member of the parliament. The parliament however can sign a motion of censure and, if it is favorably voted by 50% of the parliament, the law is thrown to the bin and the government has to step down.

In the last 4 years, it's been used twice already, for the same law, first for it to move to the senate and then when it came back for the second voting at the parliament. It was a law supposed to improve our economy. All it did was making it worse, on top of having ecologic consequences.

Yesterday, the government yet again used the article 49-3 to force the law to pass and bypass yet again the parliament, for a neoliberal law that literally no one wants (71% of the population is against it to be exact). It includes many things like the ability for a company to fire people more easily, sometimes even without a decent reason, it lowers the pension in case someone is fired, it increases the legal time of work (up to 60h/week if the boss says so), it decreases the minimum time of leisure for employees on their private time, and so on.

So, basically, our government is forcing laws, against the population and its opinion, without a single vote at any point, and brutally takes our democracy in doggystyle. Sometimes I feel like democracy is just a vast joke and is just a camouflaged dictatorship.

With links that you actually should read before going all out "Policing in Europe sucks lol":

• http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36261852
• http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/french-labour-law-government-forced-to-use-emergency-powers-to-push-through-controversial-changes-by-a7023371.html
• http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/french-government-narrowly-escapes-no-confidence-move-from-rebels/42148464
• https://winteroak.org.uk/acorn/resources/night-of-rage-across-france/

Oh, also, did you know that many of the people you see wearing masks or people you can see the face of are extreme-right activists trying to ruin the pacific protests by acting violent? Oh, and also, did you know that many of the people you see wearing masks are actually cops undercover following orders from higher ranks to ruin the pacific protests by acting violent? How I know it? My father is a police officer. Hundreds of cases of police brutality happened. Even the UN recently said France police is too quick to use force. Not saying it's right to burn cop cars, especially since they're paid with my taxes, but the situation has to be taken into a whole to be understood and criticized.

So, let me reiterate what I said earlier: Don't judge on one single video when you actually ignore what is truly happening here.

I won't enter into a long boring discussion on the internet. You have implicitly condone it with your statement, be more eloquent next time and we will presume otherwise.
Can't see any news on ''police brutality'' in your links. The government is not the police and viceversa. Undercover cops operate so to arrest people, they don't risk other officers' lives while doing their job. The UN has no competence on France's internal security. I don't know french law so I won't comment on that. I live in Europe so I know what is happening and I will reiterate my statement: in Europe (most countries) the police has its hands tied for political reasons: I won't get into a discussione regarding international politics because it will be wasted. 

8 hours ago, LtRob said:

I won't enter into a long boring discussion on the internet. You have implicitly condone it with your statement, be more eloquent next time and we will presume otherwise.
Can't see any news on ''police brutality'' in your links. The government is not the police and viceversa. Undercover cops operate so to arrest people, they don't risk other officers' lives while doing their job. The UN has no competence on France's internal security. I don't know french law so I won't comment on that. I live in Europe so I know what is happening and I will reiterate my statement: in Europe (most countries) the police has its hands tied for political reasons: I won't get into a discussione regarding international politics because it will be wasted. 

I didn't implicitly condone it, you're putting words in my mouth, which are two different things. If you can't quote me where I actually say I either support or condone it, then I simply don't, get over it. My links are about the law that is getting passed and creating an outrage across the country. If you want links about police brutality, you use our dear friend Google and you type 'France police brutality' in the 'news' tab and you'll fall on stuff like this one, which is not an isolated case thanks to the abuse of the state of emergency that was applied after the terrorist attacks of november and still effective today. The government is not the police, that's true, but when the government attacks its own people with dictatorship maneuvers and acts like a dictatorship, it's up to the police officers to revolt along the people to protect our rights and freedoms. Undercover cops operate as 'breakers'. The name says it all. They break the social movements and strikes by violent acts to discredit it to the eye of the public opinion (and once again, I know what I'm talking about, my father is a police officer and worked for years in what is called the CRS which takes care of the protests). The UN has no completence on France internal security but can judge and emit reports on how countries deal with different issues. And recently, they emitted a report stating french police is too quick to use violence and force instead of trying to calm down the whole situation, leading up to situations such as now. Living in Europe is not enough to understand what's happening here. You can KNOW what is happening, UNDERSTANDING it is a whole different matter. And no, in Europe, police doesn't have its hands tied for political reasons. Actually, as of right now, I can tell you our police doesn't have its hands tied AT ALL.

Still too quick to judge.

Edited May 19, 20169 yr by Hystery

1 hour ago, LtRob said:

So you're justifying what happened in the video, wow, I didn't expect that in this website. Payed less than what a bricklayer gets and have to face this crap. Too bad I can't be explicit in this forum.

Yeah, that is insane that police officers can pretty much be killed at any time and aren't even paid that well.

Authority of police si very bad in Europe :( 

6 hours ago, LtRob said:

We don't have half of the tools american police has.

What exactly  don't we have then?

Largely disagree with you; as @Hystery said this is an isolated incident in one of Europe's countries. To conclude from this incident the police in Europe can't protect themselves is a prime example of rash generalisation; just like saying all US students are in danger whenever a shooting happens there.

Police cars get set alight during protests in the US too.

Edited May 19, 20169 yr by Albo1125

9 hours ago, LtRob said:

So you're justifying what happened in the video, wow, I didn't expect that in this website. Payed less than what a bricklayer gets and have to face this crap. Too bad I can't be explicit in this forum.

No, he definitely is not justifying anything, just providing background information on the video you are seeing.

Like he said, you have no idea outside of that video of what is going on. How do you know that the officers inside that vehicle weren't involved in police brutality and this is the backlash? 

Just because you're on police centered forums doesn't mean that we're all going to support the police 100% all of the time either. Don't assume that this is all one giant circlejerk over the police.

9 hours ago, LtRob said:

I won't enter into a long boring discussion on the internet. You have implicitly condone it with your statement, be more eloquent next time and we will presume otherwise.
Can't see any news on ''police brutality'' in your links. The government is not the police and viceversa. Undercover cops operate so to arrest people, they don't risk other officers' lives while doing their job. The UN has no competence on France's internal security. I don't know french law so I won't comment on that. I live in Europe so I know what is happening and I will reiterate my statement: in Europe (most countries) the police has its hands tied for political reasons: I won't get into a discussione regarding international politics because it will be wasted. 

Read everything apart from what is now in bold... You say you won't enter a "long boring discussion" but then pour out loads of responses which would indicate a debate. And no, he did not implicitly condone anything. You might want to actually look up the definition of the phrase before using it.

News From The Other Side of The Oil Curtain, that's always fun to read. Poor French, the capitalism is knocking on their office doors. I can understand their anger. How did that Independent article say? "Unions and students". Oy vey, that's truly the most hardworking and productive population groups... Oups, got distracted again. (in all seriousness though, if a party in the Parliament is blocking the bill then it should stay blocked, that's the democratic procedure. Plus it will contribute to the demise of Europe, and make our generals happy).

Meanwhile in our socialist Russia - part of the Europe, isn't it? - (there the employment law, is, actually, astonishingly pro-employee, thanks to the Reds for that, but is violated almost completely, thanks to the same people) no one riots against the government. Because if you will, you might find yourself far away, surrounded by bears and Corrections personnel. It's always good to have true Socialist dictatorship instead of that European democracy.

However as far as the protection of the police goes, we suck at it. Even in neighboring Poland it's better. Out here there's definitely no that fancy American things. I always laugh seeing discussions on foreign forums re what gun to buy, how many cuffs to carry, and whether CVPI is better than Charger. You carry what you're given, you wear what you're told to, and you drive a 10-y.o. car and pay for fuel out of your pocket. Don't forget that when you screw up, you'll end up conveniently fired from the force the day before you screw up (in Russia all police and such personnel submit their resignation applications with no date, so the brass could put in whichever date is convenient).

4 hours ago, Albo1125 said:

What exactly  don't we have then?

Largely disagree with you; as @Hystery said this is an isolated incident in one of Europe's countries. To conclude from this incident the police in Europe can't protect themselves is a prime example of rash generalisation; just like saying all US students are in danger whenever a shooting happens there.

Police cars get set alight during protests in the US too.

In relevance to France more particularly, I've heard from numerous people that there are parts of France that police simply are not welcome. As in if they go into those parts in small numbers they are attacked. I remember opening a topic about this a few years ago on the French ghettos, and how the police avoid those ghettos because they're always attacked when they enter. I don't exactly agree with the statement that European police can't protect themselves. I think it depends on a case by case basis. But I can come closer to agreeing that (some) European police in certain parts of certain countries do have a much harder time controlling the crime than others. When the people you're dealing with don't want you there and don't care to cooperate, sometimes things can get a bit ugly fast.

 

1 hour ago, AlconH said:

No, he definitely is not justifying anything, just providing background information on the video you are seeing.

Like he said, you have no idea outside of that video of what is going on. How do you know that the officers inside that vehicle weren't involved in police brutality and this is the backlash? 

Just because you're on police centered forums doesn't mean that we're all going to support the police 100% all of the time either. Don't assume that this is all one giant circlejerk over the police.

Read everything apart from what is now in bold... You say you won't enter a "long boring discussion" but then pour out loads of responses which would indicate a debate. And no, he did not implicitly condone anything. You might want to actually look up the definition of the phrase before using it.

Even if those officers shown in the video were previously involved in a terrible brutality scenario, that doesn't give people the justification to burn their car down. I'm not sure how well the justice system is formed in Europe, let alone France. But I'm sure that there's another solution. 

38 minutes ago, Hastings said:

News From The Other Side of The Oil Curtain, that's always fun to read. Poor French, the capitalism is knocking on their office doors. I can understand their anger. How did that Independent article say? "Unions and students". Oy vey, that's truly the most hardworking and productive population groups... Oups, got distracted again. (in all seriousness though, if a party in the Parliament is blocking the bill then it should stay blocked, that's the democratic procedure. Plus it will contribute to the demise of Europe, and make our generals happy).

Meanwhile in our socialist Russia - part of the Europe, isn't it? - (there the employment law, is, actually, astonishingly pro-employee, thanks to the Reds for that, but is violated almost completely, thanks to the same people) no one riots against the government. Because if you will, you might find yourself far away, surrounded by bears and Corrections personnel. It's always good to have true Socialist dictatorship instead of that European democracy.

However as far as the protection of the police goes, we suck at it. Even in neighboring Poland it's better. Out here there's definitely no that fancy American things. I always laugh seeing discussions on foreign forums re what gun to buy, how many cuffs to carry, and whether CVPI is better than Charger. You carry what you're given, you wear what you're told to, and you drive a 10-y.o. car and pay for fuel out of your pocket. Don't forget that when you screw up, you'll end up conveniently fired from the force the day before you screw up (in Russia all police and such personnel submit their resignation applications with no date, so the brass could put in whichever date is convenient).

How exactly is the crime in Russia when compared to other countries? People enjoy comparing crime in the United States to Western European nations, so if we were to make that same comparison with Russia, how's everything looking? Are Russian police paid an exceptional salary?

17 minutes ago, TheDivineHustle said:

In relevance to France more particularly, I've heard from numerous people that there are parts of France that police simply are not welcome. As in if they go into those parts in small numbers they are attacked. I remember opening a topic about this a few years ago on the French ghettos, and how the police avoid those ghettos because they're always attacked when they enter.

Of course there are places where it's tougher to patrol, but it's just like that in sensitive suburbs, I'm sure the US have this kind of area too. But they don't "avoid" them.

 

49 minutes ago, Hastings said:

How did that Independent article say? "Unions and students". Oy vey, that's truly the most hardworking and productive population groups... Oups, got distracted again. 

The bill is affecting the employment. Students, once they finished their studies, will look for a job. See the correlation there? They're simply thinking about their future, instead of just thinking about what is right around the corner, it's perfectly understandable to see them protest. Without mentioning the fact that a good part of the students actually have one or two side jobs to pay their studies, so they're productive actually.

Edited May 19, 20169 yr by Hystery

7 minutes ago, Hystery said:

Of course there are places where it's tougher to patrol, but it's just like that in sensitive suburbs, I'm sure the US have this kind of area too. But they don't "avoid" them.

 

The bill is affecting the employment. Students, once they finished their studies, will look for a job. See the correlation there? They're simply thinking about their future, instead of just thinking about what is right around the corner, it's perfectly understandable to see them protest. Without mentioning the fact that a good part of the students actually have one or two side jobs to pay their studies, so they're productive actually.

The United States has its rough areas, but not to the point where our police have to avoid them altogether. There's no part of America where the police can't operate normally due to the crime. If it gets to that point, the police take the next step to ensuring they can function. They won't just avoid those areas. 

1 minute ago, TheDivineHustle said:

The United States has its rough areas, but not to the point where our police have to avoid them altogether. There's no part of America where the police can't operate normally due to the crime. If it gets to that point, the police take the next step to ensuring they can function. They won't just avoid those areas. 

As I said, there's actually no "avoidance" on the police side. Even in the most 'dangerous' areas of Marseille, a city of the south where there are executions between gang members regularly, police is still intervening when they're called.

48 minutes ago, TheDivineHustle said:

How exactly is the crime in Russia when compared to other countries? People enjoy comparing crime in the United States to Western European nations, so if we were to make that same comparison with Russia, how's everything looking? Are Russian police paid an exceptional salary?

Lower gun crime, much higher violent crime and murders. On the other hand, to have a cop killed or injured is an extremely rare occurrence (unfortunately this is on the rise too). And a massive amount of financial and organised crime. Several key financial crimes like money laundering aren't even prosecuted, for 10 years there's like 15 cases.

Forgot to add about the salary. It's around 700 USD in large cities, which is Ok, Russian average salary is 400-500 USD, but still not enough for 10H shifts and all the bullshit police takes. Slightly better in the military (up to 1000) and in the Investigative Committee. The latter has cool blue uniform and golden stripes as a bonus.

33 minutes ago, Hystery said:

The bill is affecting the employment. Students, once they finished their studies, will look for a job. See the correlation there? They're simply thinking about their future, instead of just thinking about what is right around the corner, it's perfectly understandable to see them protest. Without mentioning the fact that a good part of the students actually have one or two side jobs to pay their studies, so they're productive actually.

Yeah, a good professional will always find a job. Those with majors in women studies and gender science will probably not. I wonder exactly how many math and science students participated in those protests... Thinking of one's future comes in many shapes. Like, I thought about my future when I enrolled. Right now I have a bit of useful work experience, including military and law enforcement, and work for an international company -- and this all during 200% inflation and employment crisis in Russia --  without a single police car burnt down by me. I was lucky as hell, no shit, by I also did some actual investments in my future. And yeah, I'm even not that good professional.

Edited May 19, 20169 yr by Hastings

39 minutes ago, Hastings said:

Yeah, a good professional will always find a job. Those with majors in women studies and gender science will probably not.

I'm... afraid it doesn't work like that. At all. No matter how hard you can try, if there's no job offer, you won't get one. I know that for a fact, I'm unemployed, and I sent... easily more than a hundred letters to all the different companies and stores in a 40 kilometers radius. Either they don't hire, or they want 'people with experience', which won't ever happen if they actually don't hire young workers in the first place.

The "If you look hard enough you'll find one" sentence is a popular myth, work and economics don't work that way. If it did, we'd live in a world of carebears.

Just now, Hystery said:

I'm... afraid it doesn't work like that. At all. No matter how hard you can try, if there's no job offer, you won't get one. I know that for a fact, I'm unemployed, and I sent... easily more than a hundred letters to all the different companies and stores in a 40 kilometers radius. Either they don't hire, or they want 'people with experience', which won't ever happen if they actually don't hire young workers in the first place.

Then you're doing something wrong. You need to adjust your resume and cover letter so that it suits the position you're applying for. Actively research into the company you're looking to work at, evaluate what you can bring to the team and get that point across quickly and concisely.

When looking through applications for new guys at my place, run of the mill, blanket resumes get thrown straight in the trash. If it looks like you've taken time and know what you're actually trying for, that's when you peak my interest.

If you've sent over a hundred letters and aren't getting anywhere, then change your strategy.

7 minutes ago, AlconH said:

Then you're doing something wrong. You need to adjust your resume and cover letter so that it suits the position you're applying for. Actively research into the company you're looking to work at, evaluate what you can bring to the team and get that point across quickly and concisely.

When looking through applications for new guys at my place, run of the mill, blanket resumes get thrown straight in the trash. If it looks like you've taken time and know what you're actually trying for, that's when you peak my interest.

If you've sent over a hundred letters and aren't getting anywhere, then change your strategy.

I'm registered at the national employment office, followed many courses on job interviews and business letters and the like, passed all of them with congratulations. I spend several hours a day looking at the few job offers (even the ones that are like for a week of work, or even a day of work, or sometimes even just an afternoon or even just a few hours). Still nothing. The total rate of unemployment is at 10% at the moment one of the highest we ever had, and it keeps increasing. Do you know why? Because companies simply DON'T HIRE. They either keep their teams as they are, or they fire, or they even shut down all together. Because that's how the economy is running at the moment. Low, and downhill.

Just because you REALLY want something doesn't make it magically appear, it has to exist in the first place, which is not the case.

Edited May 19, 20169 yr by Hystery

53 minutes ago, Hystery said:

As I said, there's actually no "avoidance" on the police side. Even in the most 'dangerous' areas of Marseille, a city of the south where there are executions between gang members regularly, police is still intervening when they're called.

• In October 2011, a 2,200-page report, "Banlieue de la République" (Suburbs of the Republic) found that Seine-Saint-Denis and other Parisian suburbs are becoming "separate Islamic societies" cut off from the French state and where Islamic Sharia law is rapidly displacing French civil law.

• An early usage of the term regarding Europe was in a 2002 opinion piece by David Ignatiusin The New York Times, where he wrote about France, "Arab gangs regularly vandalize synagogues here, the North African suburbs have become no-go zones at night, and the French continue to shrug their shoulders."^[21] La Courneuve and other districts in Paris were described by police as no-go zones.^[22]

• http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5128/france-no-go-zones

• http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/01/22/inside-frances-sharia-no-go-zones/

• https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-go_area