Very interesting debate going on here. I am unaware of the kind of physical training US police academies give. I'd like to elaborate on my European academy training though.

In my encounters on the street, I've used arm locks and knee techniques a number of times. Pain stimuli (punches and kicks, in other words) are allowed though I've never had to use those. I used most of these techniques when the suspect was already on the ground and refused to give his hands in order to be cuffed.
The most difficult part (one that wasn't taught at my academy for that matter) for me, is engaging the first physical contact with an uncompliant suspect. 
Not that long ago, I encountered a mentally unstable person who fled his mental institution. He had his arms tightly next to his body and froze up completely. Mind you, the guy was mentally ill and uncompliant though in no way a criminal. Although he refused to be taken back, he was very friendly and kept complimenting us for being his only friends. 
Usually, I get quite an adrenaline rush when a suspect resists arrest. This makes me focus and makes me want to use physical force since it's me vs the "bad" guy.
With the mental guy, it was just me vs the "sick" guy. With a decent amount of luck, me and my partner managed to still make him comply without violence.
Afterwards, it made me wonder though what I would have done if he hadn't complied. 
I'm not saying my academy training was useless. On the contrary, it gives me a couple of techniques to choose from when in a wrestle. It did not teach me, however, how to properly engage the first physical contact when a suspect is directly in front of me and refuses cooperation.
When I'm behind or next to the suspect, no problem. I'll use a choke hold or bring him to the ground with a arm/wrist lock. When he's directly in front of me with his arms tightly fixed, that's a whole different story. My department has a two-man police patrol policy so most of the time, bringing down a suspect is no problem. Once on the ground, he is all but lost. It still makes me wonder though how I would engage contact when alone.
Any experiences from you US one-man police patrol officers are much appreciated!

Edited November 11, 201510 yr by Monty0112
Typo

To give my two cents to this conversation and to give another european perspective, the use of force is always something you have to consider. Using punches and kicks are mostly percieved as a brutal attack and are often considered unnessecary in the perspective of the bystander. Although there are situations in which officers are in the legal position to use that kind of force my police college teaches us to prefer armlocks and defensive techniques while arresting perps rather than using our fists. Using punches can also have an effect on the bystanders to sympathize with the perp which lets them justify themselves in resisting police actions. In germany, especially Berlin that effect is a major problem, as seen in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuOJm7tmpMc 

that's why I, and I guess most german police officers would agree, prefer locking techniques over raw force.

15 hours ago, Coltsmith said:

To give my two cents to this conversation and to give another european perspective, the use of force is always something you have to consider. Using punches and kicks are mostly percieved as a brutal attack and are often considered unnessecary in the perspective of the bystander. Although there are situations in which officers are in the legal position to use that kind of force my police college teaches us to prefer armlocks and defensive techniques while arresting perps rather than using our fists. Using punches can also have an effect on the bystanders to sympathize with the perp which lets them justify themselves in resisting police actions. In germany, especially Berlin that effect is a major problem, as seen in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuOJm7tmpMc 

that's why I, and I guess most german police officers would agree, prefer locking techniques over raw force.

Believe me your country is not alone in preferring those techniques. There's a reason you generally don't see police officers on COPS throw hay-makers unless they absolutely have to. I'm sure nearly every police officer would like to appear as passive and peaceful as possible, as they have a public reputation to uphold that reflects not only on them and the department they work for, but also on other police agencies country wide. Something stupid a cop does in Los Angeles is going to have an effect on a cop in New York. In the eye of the public, the NYPD cop who pulls someone over is the same guy. It's the collective term "the police". Public relations is very important to any agency, no matter what country, so you need to be able to restrain yourself even when using overwhelming physical force would be the easy (and probably most efficient) thing to do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=633-pz5fT3E

My instant instinct would be to raise my fist for a punch after I get him pinned, but  you have to leave it at a tackle unless he really starts throwing ones at you. Luckily those other officers in this video were nearby.
 

7 hours ago, unr3al said:

Believe me your country is not alone in preferring those techniques. There's a reason you generally don't see police officers on COPS throw hay-makers unless they absolutely have to. I'm sure nearly every police officer would like to appear as passive and peaceful as possible, as they have a public reputation to uphold that reflects not only on them and the department they work for, but also on other police agencies country wide. Something stupid a cop does in Los Angeles is going to have an effect on a cop in New York. In the eye of the public, the NYPD cop who pulls someone over is the same guy. It's the collective term "the police". Public relations is very important to any agency, no matter what country, so you need to be able to restrain yourself even when using overwhelming physical force would be the easy (and probably most efficient) thing to do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=633-pz5fT3E

My instant instinct would be to raise my fist for a punch after I get him pinned, but  you have to leave it at a tackle unless he really starts throwing ones at you. Luckily those other officers in this video were nearby.
 

I can totally agree with your point. Every action performed by police officers will be measured harshly. Although as mentioned above the hypocrisy is that most people expect police officers to be role models although they themselves behave in no way like a role model. Problematic, at least in Germany, is also the political and judical side of things: although the law might permit you the use of force, the politcial situation or a judge might rule against your case in certain situations. That makes policing a the modern age really difficult, because you can never be really sure whether your use of force was justified or if you get penalised for it...

On 11/11/2015, 12:04:08, Monty0112 said:

Very interesting debate going on here. I am unaware of the kind of physical training US police academies give. I'd like to elaborate on my European academy training though.

In my encounters on the street, I've used arm locks and knee techniques a number of times. Pain stimuli (punches and kicks, in other words) are allowed though I've never had to use those. I used most of these techniques when the suspect was already on the ground and refused to give his hands in order to be cuffed.
The most difficult part (one that wasn't taught at my academy for that matter) for me, is engaging the first physical contact with an uncompliant suspect. 
Not that long ago, I encountered a mentally unstable person who fled his mental institution. He had his arms tightly next to his body and froze up completely. Mind you, the guy was mentally ill and uncompliant though in no way a criminal. Although he refused to be taken back, he was very friendly and kept complimenting us for being his only friends. 
Usually, I get quite an adrenaline rush when a suspect resists arrest. This makes me focus and makes me want to use physical force since it's me vs the "bad" guy.
With the mental guy, it was just me vs the "sick" guy. With a decent amount of luck, me and my partner managed to still make him comply without violence.
Afterwards, it made me wonder though what I would have done if he hadn't complied. 
I'm not saying my academy training was useless. On the contrary, it gives me a couple of techniques to choose from when in a wrestle. It did not teach me, however, how to properly engage the first physical contact when a suspect is directly in front of me and refuses cooperation.
When I'm behind or next to the suspect, no problem. I'll use a choke hold or bring him to the ground with a arm/wrist lock. When he's directly in front of me with his arms tightly fixed, that's a whole different story. My department has a two-man police patrol policy so most of the time, bringing down a suspect is no problem. Once on the ground, he is all but lost. It still makes me wonder though how I would engage contact when alone.
Any experiences from you US one-man police patrol officers are much appreciated!

That sounds very much like the stuff I learned in my academy. We also learn how to try and talk down someone and how to deal with people who are going through a crisis or have some kind of mental illness however we are not certified doctors so there is a limit to what we are able to do. The problem nowadays is people expect the police to be able to magically calm down someone who is mentally unstable and most police officers will do their best but they are limited in what they can do.

On 11/13/2015, 4:24:41, Coltsmith said:

To give my two cents to this conversation and to give another european perspective, the use of force is always something you have to consider. Using punches and kicks are mostly percieved as a brutal attack and are often considered unnessecary in the perspective of the bystander. Although there are situations in which officers are in the legal position to use that kind of force my police college teaches us to prefer armlocks and defensive techniques while arresting perps rather than using our fists. Using punches can also have an effect on the bystanders to sympathize with the perp which lets them justify themselves in resisting police actions. In germany, especially Berlin that effect is a major problem, as seen in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuOJm7tmpMc 

that's why I, and I guess most german police officers would agree, prefer locking techniques over raw force.

I am an American but I live in Germany at the moment and I love how the German police handle things. In my opinion the police in that video did everything right. The police here in Stuttgart do things the same way. In situations like that where there are lots of people yelling at you and closing in on you they use numbers and force to maintain control. When new Americans come here for the first time I tell them not to test the police because here in Germany they don't hesitate to put you on your ass and take you to jail. In the US the police are under ever increasing scrutiny and that is making them hesitate more and more. They are less willing to use force not because they aren't justified but because they are worried about what the public and the media will say even if they are getting their ass handed to them.

1 hour ago, l3ubba said:

That sounds very much like the stuff I learned in my academy. We also learn how to try and talk down someone and how to deal with people who are going through a crisis or have some kind of mental illness however we are not certified doctors so there is a limit to what we are able to do. The problem nowadays is people expect the police to be able to magically calm down someone who is mentally unstable and most police officers will do their best but they are limited in what they can do.

Exactly. People call us and expect us to use our magic wand and solve all their problems. Responding to fights is the worst. Fifteen people fighting at a party, throwing punches and kicking, and bystanders look at me and my partner and expect us to break up the fight and arrest everyone. Waiting for backup, we get called cowards. And when we do use force to break it up, we hear them shouting "police brutality". In this day and age, policing is criticized by young and old. And on top of that, everything we do is put under a magnifying glass. For example, in my department, the simple use of pepper spray requires filling in a ten pages long paper form afterwards. This form has to be filled in twice by me AND my partner alike. It has come to the point where some colleagues are afraid to use their spray/baton, just because of all the hassle afterwards.
I still love my job and wouldn't do anything else, don't get me wrong. But there are times I wonder why we, public servants who all took an oath, are so distrusted.

4 hours ago, l3ubba said:

That sounds very much like the stuff I learned in my academy. We also learn how to try and talk down someone and how to deal with people who are going through a crisis or have some kind of mental illness however we are not certified doctors so there is a limit to what we are able to do. The problem nowadays is people expect the police to be able to magically calm down someone who is mentally unstable and most police officers will do their best but they are limited in what they can do.

I am an American but I live in Germany at the moment and I love how the German police handle things. In my opinion the police in that video did everything right. The police here in Stuttgart do things the same way. In situations like that where there are lots of people yelling at you and closing in on you they use numbers and force to maintain control. When new Americans come here for the first time I tell them not to test the police because here in Germany they don't hesitate to put you on your ass and take you to jail. In the US the police are under ever increasing scrutiny and that is making them hesitate more and more. They are less willing to use force not because they aren't justified but because they are worried about what the public and the media will say even if they are getting their ass handed to them.

Well I as an soon to be police officer in Berlin have a different perspective on things. First of all you have to understand that federalization enables different security politics to take place in different parts of Germany and the south is very much different than the north. In my part of Germany it is commonplace to blame the police on every false move made by officers and to critize every policy adopted by the departments. The penal courts are also considered mostly far too relaxed on crminial behaviour, most of the first time offenders only get parole and no jailtime whatsoever. Furthermore attacks on police officers have increased over the last years and the judical systems seems to not have caught up with this trend. That can be observed with the use of bodycams. While I assume in the US this device is used by the departments to ensure correct use of powers by police officers, bodycams in germany are mostly seen as a protective measure for police officers so that criminals who resist police officers can be identified and brought back to justice.

Edited November 14, 201510 yr by Coltsmith

On 11/14/2015, 9:31:25, Coltsmith said:

Well I as an soon to be police officer in Berlin have a different perspective on things. First of all you have to understand that federalization enables different security politics to take place in different parts of Germany and the south is very much different than the north. In my part of Germany it is commonplace to blame the police on every false move made by officers and to critize every policy adopted by the departments. The penal courts are also considered mostly far too relaxed on crminial behaviour, most of the first time offenders only get parole and no jailtime whatsoever. Furthermore attacks on police officers have increased over the last years and the judical systems seems to not have caught up with this trend. That can be observed with the use of bodycams. While I assume in the US this device is used by the departments to ensure correct use of powers by police officers, bodycams in germany are mostly seen as a protective measure for police officers so that criminals who resist police officers can be identified and brought back to justice.

I have not been to Berlin yet so I don't have any experience with the police in that area. The closest I have been is Hamburg (nice city), will hopefully visit Berlin this Spring. Luckily my interactions with the polizei have been positive although I think they let me off easy since ich bin Amerikanisch und mein Deutsch ist nicht so gut.

16 hours ago, l3ubba said:

I have not been to Berlin yet so I don't have any experience with the police in that area. The closest I have been is Hamburg (nice city), will hopefully visit Berlin this Spring. Luckily my interactions with the polizei have been positive although I think they let me off easy since ich bin Amerikanisch und mein Deutsch ist nicht so gut.

Yeah that's true! If you dont speak German, they leave you be most of the time, because most officers, at least in Berlin, speak really bad English!

Edited November 17, 201510 yr by Coltsmith

On 11/17/2015, 11:55:36, Coltsmith said:

Yeah that's true! If you dont speak German, they leave you be most of the time, because most officers, at least in Berlin, speak really bad English!

That immediately made me think of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHgs3LFLBzY

Sorry. lol

18 hours ago, unr3al said:

That immediately made me think of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHgs3LFLBzY

Sorry. lol

haha I got another good one: 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMB8TSpSf0M&index=49

 

Edited November 19, 201510 yr by Coltsmith

2 hours ago, Coltsmith said:

haha I got another good one: 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMB8TSpSf0M&index=49

 

Just an American making an ass out of himself in Germany and making other Americans look bad. If I remember correctly it is a law in Germany that you must identify yourself if a police officer asks even if they don't have probable cause or reasonable suspicion. I have been pulled over by the polizei on the autobahn to check my papers several times. This dude needs to learn the laws of the country he is living in and people in the US should learn about this stuff to before they go around calling the US a police state when there are countries that require a lot less to stop you. We are by no means perfect but Americans don't know how good they really have it.

5 minutes ago, l3ubba said:

Just an American making an ass out of himself in Germany and making other Americans look bad. If I remember correctly it is a law in Germany that you must identify yourself if a police officer asks even if they don't have probable cause or reasonable suspicion. I have been pulled over by the polizei on the autobahn to check my papers several times. This dude needs to learn the laws of the country he is living in and people in the US should learn about this stuff to before they go around calling the US a police state when there are countries that require a lot less to stop you. We are by no means perfect but Americans don't know how good they really have it.

I agree, he is making a fool out of himself for not knowing laws and regulations and calling the police officers racist. But it was more a hint to the bad english spoken by the officer ;) I mean who can control a personality? haha

Edited November 19, 201510 yr by Coltsmith

5 minutes ago, Coltsmith said:

I agree, he is making a fool out of himself for not knowing laws and regulations and calling the police officers racist. But it was more a hint to the bad english spoken by the officer ;) I mean who can control a personality? haha

Ah yes, it is funny. I enjoy talking with Germans, most of them seem worried about speaking English to an American (maybe they are worried that they will offend me if they mess up) so they tell me their English is not good but then when they speak English it is usually near perfect. I have gotten pretty good at figuring out what Germans mean when they confuse a word with something else.

I had a polizei officer stop me to tell me my fog lights (nebellichter I think) were on and she was having a hard time translating the word to English so it took a few minutes for her to explain what she was trying to say.

1 minute ago, l3ubba said:

Ah yes, it is funny. I enjoy talking with Germans, most of them seem worried about speaking English to an American (maybe they are worried that they will offend me if they mess up) so they tell me their English is not good but then when they speak English it is usually near perfect. I have gotten pretty good at figuring out what Germans mean when they confuse a word with something else.

I had a polizei officer stop me to tell me my fog lights (nebellichter I think) were on and she was having a hard time translating the word to English so it took a few minutes for her to explain what she was trying to say.

yes I know what you mean! we all learn English for at least 5 years in school, but I guess our school systems isnt really keen on speaking lessons so the pronounciation and the usage of words are not really that good! I'd compare us Germans more to French, who understand English, but refuse to speak it!

On 11/19/2015, 1:50:26, l3ubba said:

Just an American making an ass out of himself in Germany and making other Americans look bad. If I remember correctly it is a law in Germany that you must identify yourself if a police officer asks even if they don't have probable cause or reasonable suspicion. I have been pulled over by the polizei on the autobahn to check my papers several times. This dude needs to learn the laws of the country he is living in and people in the US should learn about this stuff to before they go around calling the US a police state when there are countries that require a lot less to stop you. We are by no means perfect but Americans don't know how good they really have it.

Americans being uneducated and entitled? Say it isn't so!

Yeah, I know. A lot of my fellow countrymen are idiots. Russia's another great example of what you're talking about. They can pull you over for no reason and search without probable cause. Arrests for felony offenses often include a complimentary beating or kick to the head if they get you on the ground, too. There are lots of accusations of corruption as well, and you'll sometimes see Russian citizens that not only have front facing dash cams for insurance, but also window facing dash cams to record police encounters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOsdsTXAt-g

These guys have me singing "God Bless America" every time I watch this video.