I'll just leave this here. Let me know what you think below...

 

Its definitely a "feel good" video, but just for the sake of whats right...

Police fatalities are actually at a decline. There's a lot of press covering officer fatalities lately, but no matter how scary the stories are in the news, they're still going down. And that's a great thing. You don't have to show respect for police while at the same time falsely representing the current dangerous of their job. And it's true that an officer dies every 58 hours, but the majority of those deaths are traffic or accident related. But the beginning portion of the video misleads you into thinking that shootings are the #1 cause. We should be talking about how to keep our officers safe on our roads instead of drumming up fear about police shootings, because statistically speaking, that's not the greatest threat to officers in the past, and especially not now. And even their statistic about assaults on police officers isn't entirely truthful, since apparently those numbers are down as well. They don't include those things because, again, its a feel-good video. Its meant to tell a certain narrative, and to appeal to the emotions of an already sympathetic audience. 

While this video is meant to gain respect for police officers and that's an overall positive message, I think it is very misleading in not only the information that it presents, but also the way in which it presents it.

 

I feel like a dick for pointing all of this out, but I've seen a lot of facebook videos like this. It is totally fine to approach police topics with the angle of "how do we protect officers", and that should be a part of every conversation about police matters. But there's no reason why the conversation has to start on facts that are misrepresented. Just my two cents.

We really need to start appreciating what our officers do for us, and stop taking everything for granted. Thanks for sharing!

Edited September 8, 201510 yr by TheDivineHustle

Its definitely a "feel good" video, but just for the sake of whats right...

Police fatalities are actually at a decline. There's a lot of press covering officer fatalities lately, but no matter how scary the stories are in the news, they're still going down. And that's a great thing. You don't have to show respect for police while at the same time falsely representing the current dangerous of their job. And it's true that an officer dies every 58 hours, but the majority of those deaths are traffic or accident related. But the beginning portion of the video misleads you into thinking that shootings are the #1 cause. We should be talking about how to keep our officers safe on our roads instead of drumming up fear about police shootings, because statistically speaking, that's not the greatest threat to officers in the past, and especially not now. And even their statistic about assaults on police officers isn't entirely truthful, since apparently those numbers are down as well. They don't include those things because, again, its a feel-good video. Its meant to tell a certain narrative, and to appeal to the emotions of an already sympathetic audience. 

While this video is meant to gain respect for police officers and that's an overall positive message, I think it is very misleading in not only the information that it presents, but also the way in which it presents it.

 

I feel like a dick for pointing all of this out, but I've seen a lot of facebook videos like this. It is totally fine to approach police topics with the angle of "how do we protect officers", and that should be a part of every conversation about police matters. But there's no reason why the conversation has to start on facts that are misrepresented. Just my two cents.

It is no different than what these people who are against the police are doing. Actually I would say what they are doing is worse, they post videos that are taken out of context or aren't relevant anymore and try to show law enforcement in a bad light. And what statistic are you looking at that says traffic crashes are the number 1 cause? That was true a couple years ago but gunfire deaths has had a big increase over the past few years and has been the number 1 cause. And I'm not sure if you have been watching the news lately but getting shot has been the greatest threat to officers now more than ever. There are more and more people calling for officers to be killed and police officers being shot has been on the rise. Normally your comments wouldn't bother me, I am all for pointing out misleading facts and propaganda films but some of what you said about statistics is wrong and I have this strange feeling that if someone from the BLM movement posted a video that had a bunch of misleading statistics and snippets taken out of context you wouldn't be so hard on them.

It is no different than what these people who are against the police are doing. Actually I would say what they are doing is worse, they post videos that are taken out of context or aren't relevant anymore and try to show law enforcement in a bad light. And what statistic are you looking at that says traffic crashes are the number 1 cause? That was true a couple years ago but gunfire deaths has had a big increase over the past few years and has been the number 1 cause. And I'm not sure if you have been watching the news lately but getting shot has been the greatest threat to officers now more than ever. There are more and more people calling for officers to be killed and police officers being shot has been on the rise. Normally your comments wouldn't bother me, I am all for pointing out misleading facts and propaganda films but some of what you said about statistics is wrong and I have this strange feeling that if someone from the BLM movement posted a video that had a bunch of misleading statistics and snippets taken out of context you wouldn't be so hard on them.

Actually this year police deaths due to firearms (I think) are down by 5% so far. Traffic collisions are number 1 this year, last I checked. 

Actually this year police deaths due to firearms (I think) are down by 5% so far. Traffic collisions are number 1 this year, last I checked. 

ODMP shows gunfire related deaths at 24 so far and automobile accidents at 19 plus an additional 3 for motorcycle accidents. I guess you could count the vehicle pursuits/struck by vehicle/vehicular assault categories in with that but my argument is those are deaths that were intentionally caused by a suspect and therefore are just as bad as an officer getting shot. I see no difference between a suspect who shoots and kills an officer and a suspect who hits and kills an officer.

It is no different than what these people who are against the police are doing. Actually I would say what they are doing is worse, they post videos that are taken out of context or aren't relevant anymore and try to show law enforcement in a bad light. And what statistic are you looking at that says traffic crashes are the number 1 cause? That was true a couple years ago but gunfire deaths has had a big increase over the past few years and has been the number 1 cause. And I'm not sure if you have been watching the news lately but getting shot has been the greatest threat to officers now more than ever. There are more and more people calling for officers to be killed and police officers being shot has been on the rise. Normally your comments wouldn't bother me, I am all for pointing out misleading facts and propaganda films but some of what you said about statistics is wrong and I have this strange feeling that if someone from the BLM movement posted a video that had a bunch of misleading statistics and snippets taken out of context you wouldn't be so hard on them.

You're absolutely right, propoganda is not meant to be as factual as possible. Its mean to be persuasive. This video reminds me a lot of the time leading up to the Iraq war. All they had to do was say "Saddamn Hussein" and "9/11" in the same sentence, while not directly associating the two, and all of a sudden the majority of the country believed Saddam Hussein was responsible for the attack. This video shows you news coverage of police shootings, and then tells you statistics about officers being killed. It doesn't directly equate the two, but you're left to believe that they're related. Its the oldest propaganda trick in the book.

Don't take me linking evidence as "hah, gotcha". I didn't link to it in the first place and I should have. Its also possible that different research could produce different results, so take it with a grain of salt.

http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/?referrer=https://www.google.com/

 

And at the end there, you're questing natural human behavior. If evidence from BLM was faulty, of course I would be less inclined to criticize them for it. You do it too, of course. If you see pro-police propoganda, you'd be less inclined to call them out on sketchy statistics. That's just human nature.

But also, there's no evidence to support the idea that police are in more danger now because of recent events. As you've said from the beginning, irresponsible journalism plays a big role in the public's perception of events. You've said before that there is not an issue of racial disparity, but instead an angle within media coverage that leads people to believe that there is. That's exactly what is happening with coverage of shootings of police officers.  Although I don't want to get into it again, I've shown you statistics about racial disparities in the justice system. So at least if BLM misrepresents that information in order to push a narrative, their core message is supported by evidence. Videos like this on the other hand, are everything wrong about the BLM movement without that evidenced-based core message. That's the key difference.

You're absolutely right, propoganda is not meant to be as factual as possible. Its mean to be persuasive. This video reminds me a lot of the time leading up to the Iraq war. All they had to do was say "Saddamn Hussein" and "9/11" in the same sentence, while not directly associating the two, and all of a sudden the majority of the country believed Saddam Hussein was responsible for the attack. This video shows you news coverage of police shootings, and then tells you statistics about officers being killed. It doesn't directly equate the two, but you're left to believe that they're related. Its the oldest propaganda trick in the book.

Don't take me linking evidence as "hah, gotcha". I didn't link to it in the first place and I should have. Its also possible that different research could produce different results, so take it with a grain of salt.

http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/?referrer=https://www.google.com/

 

And at the end there, you're questing natural human behavior. If evidence from BLM was faulty, of course I would be less inclined to criticize them for it. You do it too, of course. If you see pro-police propoganda, you'd be less inclined to call them out on sketchy statistics. That's just human nature.

But also, there's no evidence to support the idea that police are in more danger now because of recent events. As you've said from the beginning, irresponsible journalism plays a big role in the public's perception of events. You've said before that there is not an issue of racial disparity, but instead an angle within media coverage that leads people to believe that there is. That's exactly what is happening with coverage of shootings of police officers.  Although I don't want to get into it again, I've shown you statistics about racial disparities in the justice system. So at least if BLM misrepresents that information in order to push a narrative, their core message is supported by evidence. Videos like this on the other hand, are everything wrong about the BLM movement without that evidenced-based core message. That's the key difference.

Like I told Pavelow, the number of traffic related deaths would be more than gunfire related deaths if you include the "struck by vehicle" and "vehicle pursuit" categories but I don't consider those "traffic related" because they were struck intentionally. However that is just my point of view, it is fair enough if you want to include those as traffic related deaths.

Police are in more danger now because of recent events. Just yesterday I read an article about a man who called 911 and told the dispatcher that police officers should watch their back because if they see an officer alone they are going to kill them. We have more and more people calling for police officers to be killed. There are protesters in the street saying "no justice, no peace" and chanting about death to police officers. Wouldn't you agree that there is a very high amount of tension between citizens and police officers right now? And with higher tension there is more danger right?

Like I told Pavelow, the number of traffic related deaths would be more than gunfire related deaths if you include the "struck by vehicle" and "vehicle pursuit" categories but I don't consider those "traffic related" because they were struck intentionally. However that is just my point of view, it is fair enough if you want to include those as traffic related deaths.

 That's the qualification for "traffic related" that I was using, yes. Even so, gunfire deaths are falling by rather large percentages...

Police are in more danger now because of recent events. Just yesterday I read an article about a man who called 911 and told the dispatcher that police officers should watch their back because if they see an officer alone they are going to kill them. We have more and more people calling for police officers to be killed. There are protesters in the street saying "no justice, no peace" and chanting about death to police officers. Wouldn't you agree that there is a very high amount of tension between citizens and police officers right now? And with higher tension there is more danger right?

Trust me, I hear ya. I would be willing to believe that tensions lead to violence, but there's just not any evidence that points to it in this case. And as for people chanting about death to police officers, that was one rally out of probably thousands across the country. Its being replayed on Fox News again and again and again to push that narrative. Its exactly what I was talking about with irresponsible journalism. Ignore national statistics, and push a false narrative as a fake national issue. Police deaths, specifically firearm deaths, are lower since any of this tension started. That shouldn't be a harsh truth that defeat someone's point, we should be celebrating it. There have been protests where people have called for the president to be killed, but we don't let that represent the tea party. That's not a standard that we hold to any other group in America, other than an organization that is protesting the violence being committed against them...

You were absolutely right about the effects of irresponsible journalism in the other thread, but here it is. Exactly what you were talking about. 

 That's the qualification for "traffic related" that I was using, yes. Even so, gunfire deaths are falling by rather large percentages...

Trust me, I hear ya. I would be willing to believe that tensions lead to violence, but there's just not any evidence that points to it in this case. And as for people chanting about death to police officers, that was one rally out of probably thousands across the country. Its being replayed on Fox News again and again and again to push that narrative. Its exactly what I was talking about with irresponsible journalism. Ignore national statistics, and push a false narrative as a fake national issue. Police deaths, specifically firearm deaths, are lower since any of this tension started. That shouldn't be a harsh truth that defeat someone's point, we should be celebrating it. There have been protests where people have called for the president to be killed, but we don't let that represent the tea party. That's not a standard that we hold to any other group in America, other than an organization that is protesting the violence being committed against them...

You were absolutely right about the effects of irresponsible journalism in the other thread, but here it is. Exactly what you were talking about. 

There was more than just one protest that was using that chant and I don't watch Fox News so I can't attest to what narrative they were pushing. Believe me, I am happy that there is a downward trend in law enforcement deaths but that doesn't change the fact that more and more people are against law enforcement and want to do harm to law enforcement officers due to current events. And my opinions are not based on anything the US media is putting out because I live in Germany and very rarely see any American news outlets on TV.

There was more than just one protest that was using that chant and I don't watch Fox News so I can't attest to what narrative they were pushing. Believe me, I am happy that there is a downward trend in law enforcement deaths but that doesn't change the fact that more and more people are against law enforcement and want to do harm to law enforcement officers due to current events. And my opinions are not based on anything the US media is putting out because I live in Germany and very rarely see any American news outlets on TV.

Well, if you total the amount of people calling for "thugs" to be killled...I'm not sure if it even comes close...

Encouraging violence is always a bad thing. But that mentality is in no way one sided.

Edited September 10, 201510 yr by Riley24

Well, if you total the amount of people calling for "thugs" to be killled...I'm not sure if it even comes close...

Encouraging violence is always a bad thing. But that mentality is in no way one sided.

This is the first I'm hearing of people calling for thugs to be killed. I haven't heard that at all.

This is the first I'm hearing of people calling for thugs to be killed. I haven't heard that at all.

Its been actually pretty common on this forum...at least the celebration of "thugs" being killed. Not sure if anyone here has taken it the step further, though...

Its been actually pretty common on this forum...at least the celebration of "thugs" being killed. Not sure if anyone here has taken it the step further, though...

Maybe in this forum it is but I haven't really seen it else where.

Also while doing some research to reinforce my point that it is more dangerous now for police officers than it was a couple years ago I tried looking up the number of cops shot this year but were not killed because I believe that the number of attacks is on the rise. Unfortunately I didn't find any statistic for that I did find this article that shows an FBI study that shows while the total number of officer deaths is declining the number of officers felonious killed in the line of duty has spiked by 89%. And no, this article is not from a conservative news outlet.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/fbi-number-cops-killed-duty-has-spiked

Maybe in this forum it is but I haven't really seen it else where.

Also while doing some research to reinforce my point that it is more dangerous now for police officers than it was a couple years ago I tried looking up the number of cops shot this year but were not killed because I believe that the number of attacks is on the rise. Unfortunately I didn't find any statistic for that I did find this article that shows an FBI study that shows while the total number of officer deaths is declining the number of officers felonious killed in the line of duty has spiked by 89%. And no, this article is not from a conservative news outlet.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/fbi-number-cops-killed-duty-has-spiked

Ok, so that could very well be true. But I guess I'm missing the overall point you're trying to make, and the overall point of the media. Even if felonious killings of police officers has risen, what evidence shows that that is related to the tensions? I would absolutely expect that tensions would produce violence, but the media is currently reporting recent killings as a nation-wide murderous witch hunt of police officers. Being killed is a risk that is associated with being a police officer. That's why we respect them so much. That's why, in almost all of these cases, the victimized officer was killed while performing his normal duties. The killings of the two NYPD officers come to mind, when a crazy person killed two cops for retaliation. That's a terrible story, and it was a national tragedy. But that's not representative of the national state, or a growing trend, by any current measurement. I think its irresponsible for CNN to run constant coverage of an officer that killed as a way to provide contrast to killings by police officers. Lets keep it real, that's what they're doing. 

People across the country are angry at law enforcement, and that scares a lot of people. They demonstrate that fear by saying things like "blue lives matter", as if they're society's victims. Its just not true.

Ok, so that could very well be true. But I guess I'm missing the overall point you're trying to make, and the overall point of the media. Even if felonious killings of police officers has risen, what evidence shows that that is related to the tensions? I would absolutely expect that tensions would produce violence, but the media is currently reporting recent killings as a nation-wide murderous witch hunt of police officers. Being killed is a risk that is associated with being a police officer. That's why we respect them so much. That's why, in almost all of these cases, the victimized officer was killed while performing his normal duties. The killings of the two NYPD officers come to mind, when a crazy person killed two cops for retaliation. That's a terrible story, and it was a national tragedy. But that's not representative of the national state, or a growing trend, by any current measurement. I think its irresponsible for CNN to run constant coverage of an officer that killed as a way to provide contrast to killings by police officers. Lets keep it real, that's what they're doing. 

People across the country are angry at law enforcement, and that scares a lot of people. They demonstrate that fear by saying things like "blue lives matter", as if they're society's victims. Its just not true.

Sure it could just be a random rise in killings but common sense and logic would indicate that the rise in killings happened the same year that Michael Brown was killed and these protests started, so putting two and two together it would make sense to come to the conclusion that these killings are most likely a result of current events. However, my overall point is not to try and correlate the two, it is just to say that the decrease in law enforcement deaths doesn't automatically mean a decrease in attacks on police officers or that they are in less danger than they were 2 or 3 years ago.

I can't attest to what the media is reporting because, as I have already said, I don't watch a lot of American news here in Germany. If they are in fact reporting that it is a witch hunt for police officers then yes, I would say that is a bit of an exaggeration, but I will say there has been an increase of people targeting police because of events of the past year.

I'm not a huge fan of the "_____ lives matter" movements, I understand the message those groups are trying to convey but in my opinion it is pointless. I don't think the Blue Lives Matter is a demonstration of fear, it is just a counter point to the Black Lives Matter because people are seeing an increase in attacks and criticism on police.

Sure it could just be a random rise in killings but common sense and logic would indicate that the rise in killings happened the same year that Michael Brown was killed and these protests started, so putting two and two together it would make sense to come to the conclusion that these killings are most likely a result of current events.

This is the only part I can't fully agree with. A lot of people made the argument that the NYPD double murder was a result a recent events, and then begins a conversation about whether or not people who are insane can have clear political motives. But in the end, I don't even think its fair to look at an increase of felonious police deaths and point to current events as a  reason for why that's happening. Even if you want to say that the NYPD killing was political and because of recent events, that doesn't mean that any of the other killings of police officers had anything to do with it. If they did, since they're still fairly rare cases, we would've heard about them in-detail as we did with the NYPD case. That's just the feeling I get.

This is the only part I can't fully agree with. A lot of people made the argument that the NYPD double murder was a result a recent events, and then begins a conversation about whether or not people who are insane can have clear political motives. But in the end, I don't even think its fair to look at an increase of felonious police deaths and point to current events as a  reason for why that's happening. Even if you want to say that the NYPD killing was political and because of recent events, that doesn't mean that any of the other killings of police officers had anything to do with it. If they did, since they're still fairly rare cases, we would've heard about them in-detail as we did with the NYPD case. That's just the feeling I get.

I'm not saying that all police killings are a result of current events, I am just hypothesizing that the overall rise in police attacks and killings are a result of the events over the past year.

I'm not saying that all police killings are a result of current events, I am just hypothesizing that the overall rise in police attacks and killings are a result of the events over the past year.

See but the "overall rise" is only made up of a few cases of officers being killed. Thankfully, in the broad scope of things, these cases are relatively scarce. So once you start attributing blame for an overall rise, you're just talking about those few cases that are the difference between last year and this one.

See but the "overall rise" is only made up of a few cases of officers being killed. Thankfully, in the broad scope of things, these cases are relatively scarce. So once you start attributing blame for an overall rise, you're just talking about those few cases that are the difference between last year and this one.

A few cases? 51 cases is more than a few and it is a pretty significant rise, 89% to be exact. 51 deaths is a good chunk out of the total 133 deaths that happened last year.