With all due respect, 13ubba, you are completely missing my point. My point is that some people prefer to live in the ghetto because of the atmosphere and cultural similarities of its residents. An easy example would be a black person wanting to live in a majority black community. All Black communities in Baltimore are ghetto's. That's just how racially divided and segregated Baltimore is as a city. It's either White or Black, with maybe some mixture in the medium income neighborhoods, which aren't prosperous. Based on the arguments that you're providing, I can assume that you've never lived in a ghetto before. This might be why you're missing my point.

No, I have never lived in a ghetto. I am not afraid to admit that I was raised in an upper-middle class family and always lived in nice houses in nice neighborhoods. I have spent a fair amount of time working in rough areas so I do have some experience with them (granted, not as much as someone who has lived there). So you are now saying that the reason people want to live in the ghetto is because they like the atmosphere and culture? That makes no sense, just because you make more money doesn't mean you have to live in a nicer part of town. If they want to they could make more money and still live where they want. You think they are saying "oh I better not get a job or else I will have to move out of this neighborhood because this neighborhood is only for lazy jobless people."?

No, I have never lived in a ghetto. I am not afraid to admit that I was raised in an upper-middle class family and always lived in nice houses in nice neighborhoods. I have spent a fair amount of time working in rough areas so I do have some experience with them (granted, not as much as someone who has lived there). So you are now saying that the reason people want to live in the ghetto is because they like the atmosphere and culture? That makes no sense, just because you make more money doesn't mean you have to live in a nicer part of town. If they want to they could make more money and still live where they want. You think they are saying "oh I better not get a job or else I will have to move out of this neighborhood because this neighborhood is only for lazy jobless people."?

No no no no you've got it all wrong man. This is what I'm saying:

Some people prefer to live in (What most people that don't live in the community consider) a ghetto, due to the atmosphere, cultural and racial similarities, and generally the friendliness of the residents towards those who share those similarities mentioned previously. For example, black inner city Baltimore neighborhoods. We sit here and consider those neighborhoods to be crime-ridden ghettos, but do the actual residents of those neighborhoods consider it to be a ghetto? Absolutely not, they call it their home, and they see nothing wrong with living there. Especially if they all share the same culture and race. I know this because I've lived in Baltimore for a few years, and it wasn't one of the nicer parts of the city. Sure, no one wants to be low income or financially unstable, but sometimes it's either that, or a neighborhood like I described above with benefits.

Now onto the point of this being relevant to welfare and government benefits. If said persons could live in the described neighborhoods above off of welfare and government benefits, they absolutely would. If I wanted to live in a "ghetto" as we call it since we don't actually live there, and survive and suffice in that ghetto off of welfare and benefits I absolutely would. These are the circumstances that I'm sure a lot of the residents are under. They don't mind living in a "ghetto" neighborhood; and since it's considered a ghetto, it's smack cheap to live there and welfare is enough to suffice.

Edited August 14, 201510 yr by TheDivineHustle

No no no no you've got it all wrong man. This is what I'm saying:

Some people prefer to live in (What most people that don't live in the community consider) a ghetto, due to the atmosphere, cultural and racial similarities, and generally the friendliness of the residents towards those who share those similarities mentioned previously. For example, black inner city Baltimore neighborhoods. We sit here and consider those neighborhoods to be crime-ridden ghettos, but do the actual residents of those neighborhoods consider it to be a ghetto? Absolutely not, they call it their home, and they see nothing wrong with living there. Especially if they all share the same culture and race. I know this because I've lived in Baltimore for a few years, and it wasn't one of the nicer parts of the city. Sure, no one wants to be low income or financially unstable, but sometimes it's either that, or a neighborhood like I described above with benefits.

Now onto the point of this being relevant to welfare and government benefits. If said persons could live in the described neighborhoods above off of welfare and government benefits, they absolutely would. If I wanted to live in a "ghetto" as we call it since we don't actually live there, and survive and suffice in that ghetto off of welfare and benefits I absolutely would. These are the circumstances that I'm sure a lot of the residents are under. They don't mind living in a "ghetto" neighborhood; and since it's considered a ghetto, it's smack cheap to live there and welfare is enough to suffice.

So just because you would be fine living off welfare if you were going to live in a low income area means that every person on welfare has the same mindset? My original point was that your claim of all people on welfare are just lazy leeches sucking the tax money from hard working individuals is unfair to the many people who need welfare. Republicans for some reason want to make poor people public enemy number one and blame them for all the financial issues in America yet don't see any problem with things like spending trillions of dollars trying to fix a country on the other side of the world that doesn't really want us there.

So just because you would be fine living off welfare if you were going to live in a low income area means that every person on welfare has the same mindset? My original point was that your claim of all people on welfare are just lazy leeches sucking the tax money from hard working individuals is unfair to the many people who need welfare. Republicans for some reason want to make poor people public enemy number one and blame them for all the financial issues in America yet don't see any problem with things like spending trillions of dollars trying to fix a country on the other side of the world that doesn't really want us there.

I don't recall ever saying that all people on welfare are lazy, and if I did that's not true at all, which I'm sure I didn't. It is true though, government benefits don't necessarily help anything other than the benefit recipients. Also keep in mind that George W. Bush had about a 20% approval rating. About 42% of America consider themselves Republican. If we are to do the math here, this means that more than half of Republicans didn't support George W. Bush if we assume that his 20% approval rating only consist of Republican supporters. I didn't support George W. Bush, so most Republicans actually don't support that whole middle-eastern thing. A lot of Republicans do support fixing what we broke, which is the middle-east and their "Islamic Issues".

I think where we're disagreeing on the welfare topic is that people are willingly on welfare, versus people that are on welfare because they have to be. I never said that all people on welfare are lazy, nor did I imply that. What I did say was that there are a lot of people that are on welfare because they are lazy.

I don't recall ever saying that all people on welfare are lazy, and if I did that's not true at all, which I'm sure I didn't. It is true though, government benefits don't necessarily help anything other than the benefit recipients. Also keep in mind that George W. Bush had about a 20% approval rating. About 42% of America consider themselves Republican. If we are to do the math here, this means that more than half of Republicans didn't support George W. Bush if we assume that his 20% approval rating only consist of Republican supporters. I didn't support George W. Bush, so most Republicans actually don't support that whole middle-eastern thing. A lot of Republicans do support fixing what we broke, which is the middle-east and their "Islamic Issues".

I think where we're disagreeing on the welfare topic is that people are willingly on welfare, versus people that are on welfare because they have to be. I never said that all people on welfare are lazy, nor did I imply that. What I did say was that there are a lot of people that are on welfare because they are lazy.

Hmmmm, lets take a look at what I just quoted below. You said an entire community is "too lazy to get off their butts" and when Riley24 asked you if you seriously thought tens of thousands of people were choosing to be poor you said "Yes, absolutely". To me that sounds like someone saying everyone on welfare is lazy, because that is what you just said. And what do you mean it doesn't help anything other than the recipients? Of course it doesn't, I don't get welfare so why should I expect welfare to benefit me in any way? Welfare is something that the government provides to people who don't fully have the means to provide for themselves. As a citizen is there some kind of benefit I should be receiving from welfare?

There are other things that people can not approve of besides war. Just because a Republican disapproves of a president doesn't mean they disapprove every single thing he has done.

Is saying that "most people who are on welfare are on it because they are lazy" any better than "all people on welfare are lazy"? You are essentially saying the same thing, just changing the way you are saying it.

Or an entire community of people that are too lazy to get off their butts and earn a living, so they sit around doing nothing and soak up welfare and low-income from the federal government.

Yes, absolutely. If I could sit on my butt and make enough to support myself by doing nothing, I definitely would like to do so; but I have much higher self-expectations and standards than that.

Hmmmm, lets take a look at what I just quoted below. You said an entire community is "too lazy to get off their butts" and when Riley24 asked you if you seriously thought tens of thousands of people were choosing to be poor you said "Yes, absolutely". To me that sounds like someone saying everyone on welfare is lazy, because that is what you just said. And what do you mean it doesn't help anything other than the recipients? Of course it doesn't, I don't get welfare so why should I expect welfare to benefit me in any way? Welfare is something that the government provides to people who don't fully have the means to provide for themselves. As a citizen is there some kind of benefit I should be receiving from welfare?

There are other things that people can not approve of besides war. Just because a Republican disapproves of a president doesn't mean they disapprove every single thing he has done.

Is saying that "most people who are on welfare are on it because they are lazy" any better than "all people on welfare are lazy"? You are essentially saying the same thing, just changing the way you are saying it.

When I said "an entire community" I was actually generalizing all of Ferguson's welfare recipients that actually have the TIME to go out and riot. This just goes back to my original point that some people actually don't mind being on welfare and living in a so called "bad" neighborhood. Why should they get up and go work when they're just fine on welfare and living in a ghetto? I don't see any standards or self-expectations there, which is where the laziness starts to become visible. There's so much people can do now to prevent themselves from being jobless after they graduate from high school. I could have taken a class for one year that would qualify me to work as a pharmaceutical technician. Not necessarily the best pay but it's a job for Christ sakes. But this just ties in to our education being crappy in some locations, and rather than our government FIX those locations the money is going to the millions on welfare and other stupid stuff. 

Well you stated that welfare doesn't hurt the economy. I disagree on that, it kind of does. The government continued to hand out my tax dollars to people that didn't make smart decisions growing up, or to unfortunate children of incompetent parents. No, just because you're on welfare doesn't mean you're an idiot or stupid or lazy. It just means you're in a very unfortunate position for whatever reason and because of it, those that are successful have to pay up to help you KEEP up. We were on welfare for a while as we lived in Baltimore, but we worked our asses off and got out of that ghetto and bought a beautiful home. We were even homeless before we actually lived in Baltimore for a few days because we had nowhere to go. We stayed at a hotel. But we worked and got out of that situation. My mother went back to school, I did my absolute best in school. Now she's making 6 digits a year, and I'm trying to serve. What was my point in sharing not this? To provide an example of people that had nothing and gradually built something from it. We're off of welfare now. 

The only issue I have with welfare is with those on it because they are lazy. I don't have any issue with welfare for those that NEED it as we did, but when you choose to survive off of it and decide to live in a terrible neighborhood as a result? That really gets to me. 

Edited August 15, 201510 yr by TheDivineHustle

When I said "an entire community" I was actually generalizing all of Ferguson's welfare recipients that actually have the TIME to go out and riot. This just goes back to my original point that some people actually don't mind being on welfare and living in a so called "bad" neighborhood. Why should they get up and go work when they're just fine on welfare and living in a ghetto? I don't see any standards or self-expectations there, which is where the laziness starts to become visible. There's so much people can do now to prevent themselves from being jobless after they graduate from high school. I could have taken a class for one year that would qualify me to work as a pharmaceutical technician. Not necessarily the best pay but it's a job for Christ sakes. But this just ties in to our education being crappy in some locations, and rather than our government FIX those locations the money is going to the millions on welfare and other stupid stuff. 

Well you stated that welfare doesn't hurt the economy. I disagree on that, it kind of does. The government continued to hand out my tax dollars to people that didn't make smart decisions growing up, or to unfortunate children of incompetent parents. No, just because you're on welfare doesn't mean you're an idiot or stupid or lazy. It just means you're in a very unfortunate position for whatever reason and because of it, those that are successful have to pay up to help you KEEP up. We were on welfare for a while as we lived in Baltimore, but we worked our asses off and got out of that ghetto and bought a beautiful home. We were even homeless before we actually lived in Baltimore for a few days because we had nowhere to go. We stayed at a hotel. But we worked and got out of that situation. My mother went back to school, I did my absolute best in school. Now she's making 6 digits a year, and I'm trying to serve. What was my point in sharing not this? To provide an example of people that had nothing and gradually built something from it. We're off of welfare now. 

The only issue I have with welfare is with those on it because they are lazy. I don't have any issue with welfare for those that NEED it as we did, but when you choose to survive off of it and decide to live in a terrible neighborhood as a result? That really gets to me. 

So you are making an assumption that everyone protesting and rioting in Ferguson have the time to do so because they are on welfare? Sure you could have taken your class for one year but what will happen to you during that one year that you are not working or only working part time and don't have enough of an income to support yourself or your family. There are lots of people who drop out of school because they can't afford it or they have to find somewhere to work to help bring in money for their family. There is no one size fits all for peoples financial situations. What worked for you family might not work for others. I have met people that have been working their asses off for years and their situation stays the same. My issue is with the broad generalizations you are making about people you don't know anything about.

Where did I make any mention of the economy? You keep saying that if you are on welfare it doesn't mean you are "stupid or lazy" yet every time you mention people on welfare you say things like "people who didn't make smart decisions" or "children of incompetent parents" which makes it sound like your true opinion of people who are on welfare are on it because of something they did and it is their fault that they are in the position they are in.

So you are making an assumption that everyone protesting and rioting in Ferguson have the time to do so because they are on welfare? Sure you could have taken your class for one year but what will happen to you during that one year that you are not working or only working part time and don't have enough of an income to support yourself or your family. There are lots of people who drop out of school because they can't afford it or they have to find somewhere to work to help bring in money for their family. There is no one size fits all for peoples financial situations. What worked for you family might not work for others. I have met people that have been working their asses off for years and their situation stays the same. My issue is with the broad generalizations you are making about people you don't know anything about.

Where did I make any mention of the economy? You keep saying that if you are on welfare it doesn't mean you are "stupid or lazy" yet every time you mention people on welfare you say things like "people who didn't make smart decisions" or "children of incompetent parents" which makes it sound like your true opinion of people who are on welfare are on it because of something they did and it is their fault that they are in the position they are in.

I make the assumption that everyone rioting in Ferguson is on welfare because I doubt that a hard-working and financially stable family would go out and riot in the streets. It happens but I'm sure that it's much more common that today's criminals aren't necessarily as financially well off as the average family. A doubt that a millionaire would run amok in the streets trashing and stealing when compared to someone that's unemployed and on welfare. It happens though I suppose, I haven't met every single person on the planet to declare that as being fact. What happens in the meantime while taking classes and not working really depends on the circumstances of that particular family. Some families would stay with relatives. Some would do side jobs and make a little cash just to get by. Some would downsize in living space and thus decrease the cost. Some would just simply be homeless. In my opinion, people under these circumstances need to look at the bigger picture. They shouldn't be so focused on "here and now", they should look to the future and see what they can do to ensure a successful future. If being homeless for a year and staying at motels will allow me to make 6 digits in the future after I finish school, which our circumstances weren't that severe, then I absolutely would do that. I'd do anything to pull myself out of the hole I dug myself in to begin with. Of course things happen, house fires, job loss, etc, but you've got to move on and keep going. You can't sit there and give up and accept welfare and drop out of school. Education is priority to getting back on track if you've never had one to begin with, in my opinion; debatable though.

If someone has been working for years and nothing is changing, then they have to be doing something wrong. Again, I can't sit here and tell them exactly what they should be doing because I don't know their circumstances, but if nothing is changing in their favor then they aren't doing something right. Maybe they need to move into a cheaper neighborhood, buy cheaper groceries from cheaper stores, get rid of their car and take the bus or walk, I just don't know. My point in this part of the discussion is that there's always something that you can do to make your life better. There's never a time in anyones life, at least here in America, where you're fucked and just helplessly fucked for life with no possible chance of recovery. I don't know about other countries but we have things set in place to where that's just not possible here. Even if it takes a lifetime to recover, you're never just screwed and may as well be dead.

I'm trying to separate welfare recipients into two separate categories but you keep putting them back together. I'm trying to say that there are people who seriously need that welfare. Then there are people that really don't need that welfare, but continue to soak it up because they are lazy. You seem to be joining them together and saying that everyone who's on welfare really doesn't want to be on welfare. As mentioned before, some people really don't mind being on welfare. This takes us back to the whole Baltimore ghetto and community thing.

Edited August 15, 201510 yr by TheDivineHustle

Can I just say this, why do we need welfare? I feel as though taking out welfare will be a big step in fixing our budget for the U.S. Lets just have charities and churches help out the people who are poor,  just a thought. 

Can I just say this, why do we need welfare? I feel as though taking out welfare will be a big step in fixing our budget for the U.S. Lets just have charities and churches help out the people who are poor,  just a thought. 

At first I was going to say that's not too much of the fed budget part, but then I saw this. That's... That's indeed a huge part. But I don't think people should rely on someone's good will in this issue. Like it was many times pointed out in this thread, there are people who actually need help and it's not their fault. 

 

At first I was going to say that's not too much of the fed budget part, but then I saw this. That's... That's indeed a huge part. But I don't think people should rely on someone's good will in this issue. Like it was many times pointed out in this thread, there are people who actually need help and it's not their fault. 

 

More than 100 million Americans are on welfare. That's 1 out of every 3 Americans.

I make the assumption that everyone rioting in Ferguson is on welfare because I doubt that a hard-working and financially stable family would go out and riot in the streets. It happens but I'm sure that it's much more common that today's criminals aren't necessarily as financially well off as the average family. A doubt that a millionaire would run amok in the streets trashing and stealing when compared to someone that's unemployed and on welfare. It happens though I suppose, I haven't met every single person on the planet to declare that as being fact. What happens in the meantime while taking classes and not working really depends on the circumstances of that particular family. Some families would stay with relatives. Some would do side jobs and make a little cash just to get by. Some would downsize in living space and thus decrease the cost. Some would just simply be homeless. In my opinion, people under these circumstances need to look at the bigger picture. They shouldn't be so focused on "here and now", they should look to the future and see what they can do to ensure a successful future. If being homeless for a year and staying at motels will allow me to make 6 digits in the future after I finish school, which our circumstances weren't that severe, then I absolutely would do that. I'd do anything to pull myself out of the hole I dug myself in to begin with. Of course things happen, house fires, job loss, etc, but you've got to move on and keep going. You can't sit there and give up and accept welfare and drop out of school. Education is priority to getting back on track if you've never had one to begin with, in my opinion; debatable though.

If someone has been working for years and nothing is changing, then they have to be doing something wrong. Again, I can't sit here and tell them exactly what they should be doing because I don't know their circumstances, but if nothing is changing in their favor then they aren't doing something right. Maybe they need to move into a cheaper neighborhood, buy cheaper groceries from cheaper stores, get rid of their car and take the bus or walk, I just don't know. My point in this part of the discussion is that there's always something that you can do to make your life better. There's never a time in anyones life, at least here in America, where you're fucked and just helplessly fucked for life with no possible chance of recovery. I don't know about other countries but we have things set in place to where that's just not possible here. Even if it takes a lifetime to recover, you're never just screwed and may as well be dead.

I'm trying to separate welfare recipients into two separate categories but you keep putting them back together. I'm trying to say that there are people who seriously need that welfare. Then there are people that really don't need that welfare, but continue to soak it up because they are lazy. You seem to be joining them together and saying that everyone who's on welfare really doesn't want to be on welfare. As mentioned before, some people really don't mind being on welfare. This takes us back to the whole Baltimore ghetto and community thing.

Is this some kind of reverse psychology? It seems like you are trying to make it sound like I'm the one making the generalizations when it is you. You keep saying you are trying to say there are two groups of people on welfare but when you talk about welfare recipients you are talking as if they want to be there. You are the one putting these people into one group, not me.

Oh man, I think you just solved everyone's issues! How has no one thought of "downsizing" or "shopping at cheaper stores" or "selling their car"? /endsarcasm. You think that people can just sell a car or start shopping at cheaper stores and it will just magically fix all their problems? The issue is much more complicated than that. For example, the last place I lived at in the states had horrible public transportation and few places were within a reasonable walking distance. So for the people in my county who had one car (usually a beater car) and they were barely getting by would you suggest for them to sell their car to help make ends meet? Sell the car that is their only means of transportation to get to work and to go to the grocery store? This is a pretty simple scenario I've come up with too, it can get a lot more complicated than that. So you admit to not knowing their circumstances but you have some magical power to know they are doing something wrong, you don't know what it is but you know they are doing something wrong? And you act like being homeless for a year isn't that big a deal. Being homeless can take a huge toll on someone especially for an extended period of time.

Is this some kind of reverse psychology? It seems like you are trying to make it sound like I'm the one making the generalizations when it is you. You keep saying you are trying to say there are two groups of people on welfare but when you talk about welfare recipients you are talking as if they want to be there. You are the one putting these people into one group, not me.

Oh man, I think you just solved everyone's issues! How has no one thought of "downsizing" or "shopping at cheaper stores" or "selling their car"? /endsarcasm. You think that people can just sell a car or start shopping at cheaper stores and it will just magically fix all their problems? The issue is much more complicated than that. For example, the last place I lived at in the states had horrible public transportation and few places were within a reasonable walking distance. So for the people in my county who had one car (usually a beater car) and they were barely getting by would you suggest for them to sell their car to help make ends meet? Sell the car that is their only means of transportation to get to work and to go to the grocery store? This is a pretty simple scenario I've come up with too, it can get a lot more complicated than that. So you admit to not knowing their circumstances but you have some magical power to know they are doing something wrong, you don't know what it is but you know they are doing something wrong? And you act like being homeless for a year isn't that big a deal. Being homeless can take a huge toll on someone especially for an extended period of time.

No, you are confusing my opinion. Again, I'm not saying that all welfare recipients are lazy. I'm saying that there are lazy welfare recipients, and there are people that actually NEED welfare. The people that are just lazy generally live in those Baltimore ghettos at their own will. 

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. People are stupid, and you'd think that shopping cheaper and getting into a budget is common sense, but there are plenty of people out there that still have not done that and continue to struggle as a result. If you're in a financial hole, you've done something wrong OR something went wrong. You just don't go into debt out of thin air. Something had to happen to cause you to go into that debt. Be it a bad investment or a house fire with no insurance. Doesn't matter the circumstances. If you're in financial trouble then clearly something isn't right, and it's probably you. 

Take one for the team, that's how our system of living currently works. If being homeless for a year will grant me a 6 digit salary, fuck yes I'll be homeless for a year. It sucks and being homeless isn't easy, it's really not. It's really not. But if it will allow me to permanently move forward, then I'll do what I have to do. I'm a Christian so under my circumstances something like that would fall under a category in the bible. 

May the end of the day man, I'm not saying that welfare is a bad thing. Welfare is a good thing for people that NEED it. A lot of people are on welfare and they really shouldn't be on it to begin with. 

If you're in financial trouble then clearly something isn't right, and it's probably you.

That sentence right there, that is what I am talking about. You just said yourself that you don't know everyone's situation yet you are confident enough to say that it is probably their fault? This is the most inconsistent debate I have ever had. You started out by saying that "everyone on welfare is lazy" then you changed it to "not everyone on welfare is lazy just some of them" and now to "if you are poor enough to need welfare then you did something wrong and it is most likely your fault". Every time you say something you immediately contradict it by saying something completely different.

That sentence right there, that is what I am talking about. You just said yourself that you don't know everyone's situation yet you are confident enough to say that it is probably their fault? This is the most inconsistent debate I have ever had. You started out by saying that "everyone on welfare is lazy" then you changed it to "not everyone on welfare is lazy just some of them" and now to "if you are poor enough to need welfare then you did something wrong and it is most likely your fault". Every time you say something you immediately contradict it by saying something completely different.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I don't know everyone's situation but who's fault is it if they're failing? Is it my fault that the man across the street is broke?  Is it your fault that the homeless guy up the street is still homeless? Is it the governments fault? Is it the fault of the kids at school? No, it's their fault. People need to learn to get up off of their butts and do something about it, and that's the problem I have with welfare. Honestly 13ubba, you can't possibly sit here and say that the welfare system is perfectly fine and every single recipient of welfare absolutely needs it. That's called a perfect world, and this world is far from perfect. 

The debate hasn't been at all inconsistent from my perspective. The issue we're having here is a conglomerate of misunderstandings. I'm not trying to be rude or anything but you just are not understanding what I'm saying. 

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I don't know everyone's situation but who's fault is it if they're failing? Is it my fault that the man across the street is broke?  Is it your fault that the homeless guy up the street is still homeless? Is it the governments fault? Is it the fault of the kids at school? No, it's their fault. People need to learn to get up off of their butts and do something about it, and that's the problem I have with welfare. Honestly 13ubba, you can't possibly sit here and say that the welfare system is perfectly fine and every single recipient of welfare absolutely needs it. That's called a perfect world, and this world is far from perfect. 

The debate hasn't been at all inconsistent from my perspective. The issue we're having here is a conglomerate of misunderstandings. I'm not trying to be rude or anything but you just are not understanding what I'm saying. 

If you don't know everyone's situation then how do you know who's fault it is? Back during the 2008 financial crisis I met someone who lost their job because the company couldn't afford to keep them and they were having a very hard time finding a decent paying job to support their family. You are going to tell me that it was his fault?

And why do you keep trying to put words in my mouth? I never said that welfare is perfect or that every single person on welfare needs it. This is the first time I have had anyone call me out on things I never said or even hinted at. I understand perfectly what you are saying; every response I have had to you I have repeated what you said and explained why that is wrong. You just keep changing your position and try to put words in my mouth.

If you don't know everyone's situation then how do you know who's fault it is? Back during the 2008 financial crisis I met someone who lost their job because the company couldn't afford to keep them and they were having a very hard time finding a decent paying job to support their family. You are going to tell me that it was his fault?

And why do you keep trying to put words in my mouth? I never said that welfare is perfect or that every single person on welfare needs it. This is the first time I have had anyone call me out on things I never said or even hinted at. I understand perfectly what you are saying; every response I have had to you I have repeated what you said and explained why that is wrong. You just keep changing your position and try to put words in my mouth.

In that case, as I've said many times before, it isn't his fault. If he needs welfare to continue standing in a somewhat financially stable state, then he deserves it. He's been working his butt off and something unfortunate happened out of his control. As I've said before, unfortunate things do happen and in that case they absolutely deserve welfare. There's a difference between people like that, and people that weren't ever working to begin with. You keep saying that I am generalizing all people that use welfare and saying that all of them are lazy. I am not saying that all people on welfare are lazy. What I am saying is that there are a lot of people on welfare that really shouldn't be on it at all.

You did not specifically say that welfare was perfect or that everyone on welfare needs it, but you implied that people on welfare are on it for a reason. I disagree with that, some people are on welfare out of laziness. Not everyone on welfare is on welfare because of a financial crisis that they're trying to recover from. Some people are on it because they can live off of it, and they'd rather sit on their asses and soak it up than go out and try to raise their annual digits. Those bad neighborhoods I keep referring to. Some of those Baltimore neighborhoods people can barely afford to purchase food. That's a basic necessity that everyone should have access to here in America. But you know what's funny? Those same neighborhoods where people can barely afford to purchase food are the exact same neighborhoods that the rioting took place in. Those are the exact same neighborhoods that have the worst crime in the entire city.

The problem here is that you think I'm saying all welfare recipients are lazy and choose to live in bad neighborhoods, and when someone loses their job or goes through a financial crisis it's all their fault. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that there are people on welfare that really shouldn't be on welfare, and they're only on welfare because they are lazy. I'm saying that when someone is in a financial crisis, I'm sure that it's usually their fault. Not always their fault, such as the man you mentioned previously where his business shut down, but someone who decided to goof off in school or go to college just for the girls. Or buy a brand new luxury car when they knew that they couldn't afford it. Or go out and vacation to the United Kingdom when they were already in debt.

Edited August 16, 201510 yr by TheDivineHustle

Nope, I didn't read the full report, only the verdict. I know that Brown was a wanted theft suspect who fought an officer, do the DOJ investigation results contradict it?

hard to argue with you since you probably have different experience and data than I do. Maybe in America everyone is eager to work and the rich obstruct them. Up here it's different.

The DOJ report revealed a long history of racism inside of the Ferguson Police Department, and huge racial disparities in things like traffic stops, as well as the fact that the overwhelming majority of officers were white and from out of town, and that the Ferguson PD had basically thrown away all efforts to form relationships with the community. As if that wasn't enough, the town used its police department to generate revenue by issuing arbitrary and excessive fines to poor members of the community. Oh, and the racist emails between officers...

All of that is unrelated to the Michael Brown case. What happened in Ferguson is that the Michael Brown shooting opened a deep racial wound that had been left poorly stitched for decades.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I don't know everyone's situation but who's fault is it if they're failing? Is it my fault that the man across the street is broke?  Is it your fault that the homeless guy up the street is still homeless? Is it the governments fault? Is it the fault of the kids at school? No, it's their fault. People need to learn to get up off of their butts and do something about it, and that's the problem I have with welfare. Honestly 13ubba, you can't possibly sit here and say that the welfare system is perfectly fine and every single recipient of welfare absolutely needs it. That's called a perfect world, and this world is far from perfect. 

If someone is born into poverty, is it their fault for being poor? And if that person has no opportunity of hope left in their life, is it their fault left for staying poor?

I'm saying that when someone is in a financial crisis, I'm sure that it's usually their fault. Not always their fault, such as the man you mentioned previously where his business shut down, but someone who decided to goof off in school or go to college just for the girls. Or buy a brand new luxury car when they knew that they couldn't afford it. Or go out and vacation to the United Kingdom when they were already in debt.

You literally just said that if they are failing it is their fault. Look at the quotes below. You said that if someone is having financial troubles then it is most likely their fault. Even though you don't know their circumstances you are confident enough to say it is most likely their fault.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I don't know everyone's situation but who's fault is it if they're failing? Is it my fault that the man across the street is broke?  Is it your fault that the homeless guy up the street is still homeless? Is it the governments fault? Is it the fault of the kids at school? No, it's their fault. People need to learn to get up off of their butts and do something about it, and that's the problem I have with welfare.

If you're in a financial hole, you've done something wrong OR something went wrong. You just don't go into debt out of thin air. Something had to happen to cause you to go into that debt. Be it a bad investment or a house fire with no insurance. Doesn't matter the circumstances. If you're in financial trouble then clearly something isn't right, and it's probably you.

You literally just said that if they are failing it is their fault. Look at the quotes below. You said that if someone is having financial troubles then it is most likely their fault. Even though you don't know their circumstances you are confident enough to say it is most likely their fault.

 

You are misinterpreting my words, 13ubba, and you have been for the past 3 days that we've been debating. I didn't say that if they're in a financial crisis it's their fault. I said that if they're in a financial crisis it's most likely their fault. The United States has systems in place to where you can't just be hopelessly broke, unless you did something to screw your own life up. You aren't just born with absolutely nothing, and remain that way for the rest of your life here in America.