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So Called "Police State"


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This topic really fires me up.  I hear so often all over the web, that the U.S is turning into a "Police State" where law enforcement are given large amounts of power and are the main way for the Government to control it's citizens.  People who think this is happening usually know nothing about police work or anything else law enforcement related.  For example:

 

http://news.distractify.com/news/this-mother-of-five-made-a-mistake-how-the-police-responded-with-their-weapons-was-absolutely-disgusting/

 

The title of this video is very ignorant.  What the officer is trying to do is shoot out the tires AFTER the van fled twice already.  Even if he were to miss, it would take a very, VERY bad shooter to hit anyone.  Another point I would like to bring up is that departments are getting MRAPs, or Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicle.  I have seen on a few occasion photos of officers riding and/or walking beside police MRAPs.  People are very quick to call, "POLICE STATE POLICE STATE VIVA LA REVOLUTION!" when really, these are used very rarely in extreme scenarios, and departments who own them only have one or two due to them being expensive.  

 

Yet another argument I see is usually alongside a photo of a SWAT team saying something along the lines of "Police don't need these" or "When cops get this?!"  Say in a city, like Boston, someone is robbing a bank or someone has hostages.  Who do you expect to go in their?  Cops armed with handguns and wearing light armored vests?  No.  That's like giving someone a bucket of water and sunscreen to go put out a house fire.

 

Then there are the people who whine about why cops shot beanbags into a "peaceful protest" after they punch a cop or throw a Molotov or vandalize a car.  The officers are there to make sure protesters won't kill someone or burn down a building.  because people know if they aren't going to have consequences for their actions, they'll do it.    

 

And finally, if that fails, they always close with the police brutality argument.  It's the officer on a powertrip, not the decision of the whole department of the whole country.  I'm pretty sure officers don't wake up in the morning and say, "Hey, I'm going to beat a man senseless today."  If I'm working long hours taking shit from everyone, I would want to flip our too, yet the officer can't do that.

 

What does the LCPDFR community think, in a non-bias opinion?

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You have great points. I think most people are ignorant/don't care that it is most likely one bad apple and not the whole department. What I will say against most LEA (law enforcement agencies) is that they still believe in and support "the thin blue line". I am 100% behind having to trust your fellow co-workers and partners, but that also means you have to trust them to follow the rules and be able to report and hold them accountable. Sadly though, it becomes a popularity thing, when the "cool cop" everyone likes is a dick or not doing the right things, people blow it off cuz the like the guy/gal and then get upset with and drive out the one who reported the wrong doing. All officers should support the ones doing the right things and force out the jerks who make the rest of the department look bad, it just makes their jobs harder which makes them more pissed off. 

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I created a topic exactly like this already, so most people will end up repeating what they've already posted.

 

OT: People that have this insane belief of "the Police are the governments minions" are immensely retarded. Why would the Police mindlessly follow governmental orders, against their own morals and beliefs. The Police aren't robots, they're humans. It's also impossible to judge law enforcement as a whole. Depending on the circumstances, it would be an individual decision. Every officer would choose which "side" they'd fight for, depending on their circumstances and morals.

 

I could go into extreme detail on this matter, but I don't see a purpose. I've had my say on the "issue".

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It really is hypocritical to ask for "non-bias[ed]" opinions when you begin by trying to make the opposition to you look ridiculous. Is non-bias completely agreeing with you?

 

On your first point, shooting at the tires has been barred from most police departments. This is because, primarily, police are supposed to shoot center mass or a rare headshot should center mass hits fail to stop some one. Shooting at the tires isn't effective, and cops are likely to miss on a moving vehicle with an experienced shooter (which police rarely are, most only drawing and firing at bi-annual qualifications that are aiming at a stationary target in a low stress environment (That's not to say all qualifications are like this, but it tends to be that at least half of them are, and few departments require more than 4 firearms certifications a year, and rarely under stress)). A bullet fired at the ground  doesn't usually become instantly suspended by the ground, and will most likely ricochet and continue on, hitting whatever is in its path for several hundred feet. That's why stop sticks were invented, and why police no longer hang out the window with shotguns to shoot at tires.

 

Next, I have failed to see a situation in America where an armored police vehicle is absolutely necessary, except for the North Hollywood Shootout, but a similar incident has very little chance of happening again. Given that most police departments have at least some cops with rifles now, the suspect would most likely be taken down long before an armored vehicle can travel from the station to the location of the shooting. The primary justification for armored vehicles at the moment is mass shootings, which almost exclusively happen in enclosed areas, rendering an armored vehicle useless. At the very least, it's a waste of tax payer money.

 

I don't think anyone on here would argue against major cities like New York or Los Angeles having a SWAT team, or other larger agencies having one. The problem for most people comes with the small towns/peaceful suburbs that have them and the equipment that they have. There is a neighboring city to me that over the last 10 years, has had less than 10 homicides. Out of a police force of about 150, there are about 20 on the SWAT team, and equipment includes fully automatic weapons (no practical use for law enforcement, since shots are supposed to be aimed instead of sprayed), a Lenco BEAR, a tracked armored vehicle, and a .50 caliber rifle. Their justification for the .50 caliber? Taking out a car that is wired to blow up. That's despite the fact that there have been no successful car bombings in the United States, all of them have been aimed at major cities instead of a suburb, and that almost all of the attempted bombers relied on assistance from the FBI. The other one failed miserably at putting it together (New York Square car bomb).

 

That is ignoring issues like how they are used. 

 

According to the CATO Institute, from 1995 to April 1, 2014, there have been 292 botched raids. A botched raid includes hits on the wrong house, or when innocent people are injured or killed. These alone have resulted in 40 innocent people being killed and 20 non-violent offenders killed. All for the purpose of searching a house, that used to be able to be accomplished by apprehending the potential violent offender outside as he/she was leaving and then searching the house.

 

I don't know about you, but if I wake up at 3 AM in the morning to hear people shouting, most likely not coherent enough to understand what they are saying (if they say anything at all), then I hear gun shots and my dog whining in pain, I'm reaching for my gun and I'm assuming that whatever is about to come in is a threat. I consider it a perfectly normal reaction to at least consider something a threat after those circumstances, especially since anyone can shout "POLICE!" Before some smartass says I shouldn't worry if I haven't broken the law, again, 292 botched raids and 40 innocents killed, and then I factor in the amount of home invasions reported (about 90 in the last day reported on the news according to google).

 

As for your arguments about riots, riot tactics that get employed tend to involve surrounding protesters, which leaves no room for bystanders or peaceful protesters to escape, and then targeting anyone that tries to get out. This is also considering that potential undercover officers often infiltrate protests and try to create violence in order for the protest to be shut down. The Quebec Provincial Police admitted that they had undercover officers at a protest that was otherwise peaceful in 2007, and despite denying that those cops attempted to create violence,

Sticks and stones may break bones, but 5.56 fragments on impact.

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You civvies don't know a police state when you see one. If you want to experience a police state, go on a military base. I can pull you over just because you're driving a shitty car. I can stop and arrest you for no reason. I can barge right in and  search your house or car without a warrant. I can confiscate anything you're carrying. That's what people refer to as a "police state". We're nowhere close to that.

 

Because we equipped our officers with revolvers way back when because the bad guys started carrying guns. Then we started equipping our officers with bullet proof vests because the bad guys started wearing them. Now we're equipping our officers with assault rifles because the bad guys are using them. We've always been one step behind the bad guys in society. Right now, we're on the cusp of "catching up". 

 

But I'll leave you with a quote from my favorite U.S. President, Thomas Jefferson:  "When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."

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Edited by Pavelow
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