Riley24

I live in the area. The train was heading south through my area into Hoboken. Its the train all of the New York City commuters take into the city. I have friends that take that exact train every single morning. By some miracle, one was on vacation and the other was late and missed his train. I've taken that exact train plenty of times myself. This one literally hit close to home.

And what exactly does that prove? What is your point? We can argue all day about the different ways in which surveys and studies are conducted, who is and isn't white, or the various sociological explanations for the statistics you quote. What are you saying? Lol, of course we don't have literal laws like we did in the 60s. I'm guessing you didn't exactly read any of the articles that I showed you, since they proved that its harder for black people to find jobs than white people, and that blacks are arrested at high rates for drug crimes, even though they don't commit them at those high rates. The ways in which we as a society apply or enforce laws has a BIG impact. Sure, all of the black people arrested for drug crimes. But if you go searching white people at a proportionally high rate, guess what you're going to find? DRUGS. And if studies are correct, MORE drugs than if you searched black people. So why are black people arrested at higher rates? There seems to be confusion in our society about what equality actually is. If you're claiming that its just as easy to succeed as a black person in America than as a white person, you are simply incorrect. Did you seriously think that you just happened to be born into a generation with perfect racial equality, something that no other generation in the ENTIRE history of the country has enjoyed? And look up the content of the CNN article instead of just dismissing it. You'll find some pretty ugly stuff. The same argument was used post-slavery, when black people were rounded up and imprisoned for the pettiest crimes imaginable, at far higher rates than their white counterparts. You are defending a system of inequality on the technicality that people targeted for arrest committed a crime. "What exactly do they want?" *reads website saying what they want* "Yeah but I don't like what they want" Well...um...ok? Debate that with them. And I absolutely agree that law enforcement should be civilian controlled, that's a policy model that's been floating around for a very long time. They are public servants. So you're admitting that the public and the police are ingrained with racist stereotypes...? That's the entire problem being discussed. Why are we even debating? They found the PCP after killing him, and you're right, we'll also need to wait for the toxicology report. If he wasn't on PCP, there also needs to be an investigation into whether or not the PCP was actually found in the car by the police. It would not be the first time in America that evidence was planted. But a drugged out guy is not a deadly threat. Someone acting erratically is not a deadly threat. I understand why the police were concerned, and I understand why they felt the need to call for backup. But I'll say it again, not following orders and erratic behavior is not an immanent deadly threat. Its a worrying situation at best. In order to end somene's life, you have to be pretty damn sure they're about to end yours. That's the whole point of self-defense. We simply cannot allow our payed public servants to be too terrified to do their jobs. And my slightly tongue and cheek example of Paul Giamatti was not about stardom, which I tried to make clear. Its about someone that LOOKS like Paul Giamatti. And I'm glad we at least have, or are starting to have an understanding of where we're coming from. If you don't believe that systemic racism exists, that's fine. We can debate that, we can show each other articles and studies. My point then would be that the system is created by people. And if you're willing to admit that racism on the personal level exists, what is so unbelievable about the idea that the people who created and continue our current system could have the same personal levels of embedded racism? I'm not up in arms about the cops choice of words, don't get me wrong. I just don't think that if it was a jolly middle aged white guy, that they would've handled it in the way they did, or referred to him the way they did. It goes back to the classic point we all know is true: Muslims are terrorists, black people are thugs, and white people are mentally ill. Its my personal opinion that if Crutcher had been white, they would've thought he was a crazy white guy off his meds, or someone having a diabetic episode. And the Complex link is broken. That comment was mostly a joke lol, but I still think its true to a certain extent. There's also similar allegations against police in St. Paul. The narrative that police were attacked by rioters out of nowhere is not one supported by any sources other than the police department itself. I'd love for you to watch interviews with Michael A. Wood Jr., the former USMC FAST team member and Baltimore PD Sergeant. He talks about how his military training made him a lot less scared during interactions with potential criminals, because he knew he could draw and shoot faster than anyone he was talking to. He's a big advocate for improving police training. And the public will never stop engaging in crime, otherwise we wouldn't need cops. Crime is an unavoidable byproduct of having a society with laws. Respect for police has to come from improvements done by police. I'm not demanding that you take up a liking for that specific group. Its just important that we understand why they exist in the first place.

Did you know that most cop killers are white? And when white people kill cops, there's no #bluelivesmatter, there's no outcry. Its seen as a normal occurrence. When a black person kills a cop, its made to seem like part of a bigger picture. Progress has been made, no doubt. But do you really believe that systemic racism ended with the Civil Rights Act? What about 20 years ago, 10 years ago? In what year did we suddenly put all of our racial biases and social structures behind us? If you want to see laws, just look at the drug war. Look at Stand Your Ground. Look at Stop and Frisk. The whole point of the drug war was to target "blacks and hippies" http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-richard-nixon-drug-war-blacks-hippie/ Today, our laws are explicitly racist. But they allow and support racism in how they are applied. Now we're using minor drug crimes as a basis to target and imprison minorities. Where do you think they search more cars for "suspicion of drug paraphernalia", North Philly or Beverly Hills? You better damn well believe that people in Beverly Hills are doing coke. Imagine growing up as a poor, young black teenager, and getting treated as a suspect no matter what you do, and having to endure disproportionate police searches or harassment, for every day crimes like jaywalking. That's oppression. Did you think every black person across the country were lying about their experiences for decades? Maybe try reading their website, that might be a good source. There are many police reform groups besides BLM. The BLM message is simply "stop killing us", other groups focus more on policy than BLM does. The sources for the info-graphic are incredibly unspecific, which is worrying. But assuming that those statistics are correct, what exactly is the point that you're trying to prove. That black people are more dangerous than white people? That fear of black people is rational? I need clarification. I agree that violence within the black community largely has to do with socio-economic issues, but I'm confused as to why you decided to include this as a response. I'm guessing they wanted her to come over so they could detain her. But they seemed pretty hyped the fuck up on adrenaline, far too much so. Sadly, we can't assume that our armed public servants are thinking clearly. Yeah, I agree with your assessment that he could've very well been on something. But erratic behavior is not the same thing as an imminent deadly threat, which is why the officer is facing charges. Picture a white guy, like Paul Giamatti, having a mental breakdown or drug induced hallucination in the middle of the road. He's not attacking anyone, but is acting strange. Does he get gunned down in the street for not following orders, or does he get taken to the hospital? Again, I think it has to do with our ingrained stereotype that large black men are dangerous. For a LARGE part of our history, we called them "savages" and "apes". Now we call them "thugs". Through our media, we've been taught that black men pose a unique danger that other men do not. Why was that officer SO scared of Terrence Crutcher? Its an embedded racism within our society. This isn't "playing the race card", I'm not accusing the cops of being racist or evil. Its just important that we understand the double standards in our society. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/PaulGiamattiSept2013TIFF.jpg/220px-PaulGiamattiSept2013TIFF.jpg https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/terence-crutcher-4-e1474303289961.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&strip=all They're the same build, both bald, around the same age, and even have the same facial hair. Do you really think someone that looks like Paul Giamatti gets shot and killed while potentially having a mental breakdown? Would the cop in the helicopter have said that Paul "looks like a bad dude"? Maybe. But do you REALLY think race had NOTHING to do with it, that its entirely even? Ever wonder why "the black guy always dies first" in movies? I'm not assuming, I'm just saying it happens. And I read somewhere that it happened in Charlotte, but I can't find the article now so don't take my word for it. But here's a study that showed it actually happens: http://news.berkeley.edu/2014/08/22/berkeley-researchers-find-police-often-incite-violence-at-protests/ Bringing riot gear to a peaceful protest is a sure way to piss off all the peaceful protesters. At the protest in Dallas, before the shooting, uniformed Dallas officers were marching with the peaceful protesters, even smiling and taking pictures. That's how you do it. If you're claiming they couldn't have avoided shooting Scott, I don't agree. If they slowed down, calmed down, and allowed his wife to explain the situation and talk him out of the car, it very well could've ended peacefully. But instead they went the "tacticool" route and look how that ended up. Look, my overall point is that I want us to be able our racial differences so we can get beyond them. In terms of the police, there is absolutely a way forward. Mandatory body cameras, legitimate prosecutions of cops, etc. Police need FAR better training than they get now. They need to be better able to end these situations peacefully instead of freaking out and killing someone. So many military members have spoken out against the shootings, saying that they would never shoot someone that quickly in IRAQ. More rigorous training for cops also means that cops are safer, since they're better able to handle stressful situations and defend themselves when its actually necessary. Community engagement is also fundamental; cops today are seen as an occupying force, when they need to be seen as what they really are: public SERVANTS. That change in perception can only come from changing the police, not telling people what to think of them. Yeah, because it's a hot button issue right now. It has the entire country talking about it, and has enraged millions of people. That doesn't surprise me one bit. But that doesn't mean if you look at just BLM protests, that the majority of those have been violent. That's not true.

I agree. I disagree with all of those things as well. But we don't apply that standard to any other groups. The example I always use is gun rights groups. People at pro-second amendment rallies march with loaded rifles wearing masks, intimidating anyone that shows up to voice a dissenting opinion. People in gun rights groups openly call for the murder of government officials, cops, and even the president. But when we see people like them do things like that, we excuse it as "its just a few crazies", and we don't let it distract us from the political issue of gun rights vs. gun control. But when some people who use BLM as a slogan take it too far, we immediately say that their entire message isn't worth discussing. Look, the issue at hand is oppression. It takes a different form than it has in the past. We also look at the past with rose-colored glasses. There were violent and even deadly riots during the civil rights era. People accused Martin Luther King Jr. of trying to start a race war, and encouraging violence and murder. There were viscous slave rebellions where whites were murdered. But slavery was still worse than the rebellions, segregation was still worse than the riots in the 60s, and police brutality and racial profiling are worse than the riots. Its fine to condemn the riots, I do it all the time. But it is FAR more important that we discuss the issues that are being protested. Protests and riots aren't going to stop by telling black people to shut up and behave, they're going to stop when we see nation-wide reform. We can't expect people who might be experiencing oppression to behave entirely civilly in their protesting, and rationally debate issues with nuance on the streets. People are ANGRY. Far more angry than you or I have been in our entire lives, imagine that. We have a responsibility as calm and rational people to address the issues, and fix the system. And I would have to disagree as well. Racism is more complex than "I hate black people". Its all about the system. Please check these out: https://thinkprogress.org/a-black-college-student-has-the-same-chances-of-getting-a-job-as-a-white-high-school-dropout-b7639607fdf1#.5ymcrk2rt http://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/04/26/opinion/sunday/forcing-black-men-out-of-society.html?referrer= http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873.pdf http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-cops-race-injury-20160725-snap-story.html http://www.npr.org/2015/08/29/435833251/shooters-quicker-to-pull-trigger-when-target-is-black-study-finds https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/30/white-people-are-more-likely-to-deal-drugs-but-black-people-are-more-likely-to-get-arrested-for-it/ https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/31/the-counted-police-killings-2015-young-black-men The last three are, in my opinion the most relevant and important. There's a bunch more studies I could include but I'll spare you the reading lol, hopefully you get the point. The stereotype about black men is that they are more dangerous. All of the old steroetypes about people locking their car doors, crossing the street, or clutching their purse on an elevator: they're REAL. With the literal endless stories of harassment, profiling, etc, even long before the internet: did you think black people all across the country were lying about their experiences? Just read the recent DOJ reports, they're damning. White people shouldn't feel guilty for being born into a society that holds black people down, but we're obligated to help fix it and demand reform. Thanks to the DOJ and BLM, we no longer have the luxury of saying we didn't know. People don't like to read studies about black people facing inequality, because it makes us uncomfortable about our own place in the world. We need to get past that. Among unarmed victims of police shootings, black people make up a significant majority, proportionately speaking. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/study-finds-police-fatally-shoot-unarmed-black-men-at-disproportionate-rates/2016/04/06/e494563e-fa74-11e5-80e4-c381214de1a3_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/07/11/arent-more-white-people-than-black-people-killed-by-police-yes-but-no/?utm_term=.91cd1ad51294 "U.S. police officers have shot and killed the exact same number of unarmed white people as they have unarmed black people: 50 each. But because the white population is approximately five times larger than the black population, that means unarmed black Americans were five times as likely as unarmed white Americans to be shot and killed by a police officer." At first, the police claimed that he jumped out of his car and pointed a gun at officers. Their own video clearly disproves that claim. At no point upon exiting the car did Scott raise his arms, and its not even clear if he had a gun in his hands. The police said they were "not sure" if the gun was loaded, days after collecting it for evidence. Their lack of transparency and honesty shows exactly why they're not trusted. And I have to give credit to Tulsa, they immediately released the dashcam and helicopter footage with full audio, and the officer who killed the unarmed man is currently being charged with manslaughter. The police chief released a statement after the shooting that justice would be reached, and they didn't provoke the peaceful protesters across the city. And guess what? No rioting in Tulsa, and the media NEVER covered the peaceful protesting. I'll refer you back to the study that showed the racial profiling associated with the drug war. My using of the SF standoff was simply to show that there IS a way to handle these situations that doesn't end in tragedy. The police in SF handled it perfectly; they backed off, set up a perimeter, and talked the guy down. The police in Charlotte rushed the guy and demanded absolute obedience, and killed him when he didn't comply. His life was less important than the speed at which they were going to make the arrest. And THEY rolled up on HIM, they weren't called to his house. They had no reason to blitzkrieg the guy. That's simply not true. The VAST majority of protests have been peaceful, they just weren't reported on.

You realize its a CITY, right? A fairly big city. There's protests in many areas of the city. Most of them have been peaceful. Its possible for peaceful protests and riots to occur in the same city, even at the same time. I can't believe I have to explain that. What I was talking about is when the police bring riot gear to a peaceful protest. Yes, that happens. Black people didn't create their oppression, that's historically false. And please read this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/07/11/arent-more-white-people-than-black-people-killed-by-police-yes-but-no/?utm_term=.91cd1ad51294 "U.S. police officers have shot and killed the exact same number of unarmed white people as they have unarmed black people: 50 each. But because the white population is approximately five times larger than the black population, that means unarmed black Americans were five times as likely as unarmed white Americans to be shot and killed by a police officer." I believe in justice. When someone breaks the law, I want them arrested. If someone poses an immendent deadly threat to a cop or someone else, I understand why that person has to be killed. But if you think the police are allowed to kill someone for "not following orders", you are LITERALLY INCORRECT. Nowhere in the law, police training, or police procedures does it justify such an action. So take yourself off "team cops", because you're justifying the murders of unarmed people for "not listening". If that's just your opinion, fine. But it is a disgusting one, and it makes me question your morals. Oh my god dude, I literally just explained what "black lives matter" means, and you're still wrong about it. They do NOT claim that only black lives matter. How do you STILL not get it? Or are you just lying? EXACTLY- they're human. They're subject to the same racial biases that we ALL are. Me and you have the same biases, because we're also human. We've all been ingrained with racial stereotypes, including cops. These protests are exposing those biases, and I can tell how incredibly uncomfortable that makes you. So uncomfortable that you have to lie about what the entire movement is about. By bringing attention to these biases and injustices, we can hopefully influence police training and get beyond it. I'm sorry, but you're on the losing side of history. Just look at the DOJ reports, dude.

Enjoy your bubble.

LOL- one bozo in his backyard posts a video in his backyard, and that's enough to convince you? I'm sure I couldn't find a single video of a white gun rights advocace encouraging violence, right? And dude, you're still not getting it. The majority of the protests have been peaceful. Accept it. If you continue to say that the majority of them are violent, you're lying. Facts are incredibly stubborn things; the world doesn't conform to your beliefs just because you want it to. Also, you really shouldn't call someone "dumbass" online. It's mean.

Where did you hear that BLM declared a race war....? Is that on their websites agenda, or Info Wars? here is a FOX NEWS article reporting that the protests have been mostly peaceful. But if this isn't good enough for you, Google "Charlotte protests peaceful" and you'll get a whole list of articles reporting exactly what I said. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/09/24/fourth-night-charlotte-protests-is-largely-peaceful.html And you're the one that accused me of not doing research. Embarrassing.

Lol dude. There can be peaceful protests and riots in the same city. And in Charlotte, the majority of the protests have been peaceful. So you're admitting that our society treats black people as if their lives don't matter, but you think that's justified?

The protests across the country, even in Charlotte, have largely been peaceful. Let's also remember that Black Lives Matter doesn't have membership. So when you see people jumping on police cars or looting stores, it's not like they're part of an organization. They're just bozos that showed up to a protest and wanted to break some shit. It's also important that we understand that as it stands now, it looks like the police antagonized the protest, raised the tension, and caused the riot. Firing tear gas, violently arresting protesters, and commanding obedience usually leads to a violent outcome. But then the media doesn't report on any of the state violence, they just say "oh look, there's a riot in Charlotte". You don't care about the peaceful protests just as you claim we don't care about peaceful cops. You're a hypocrite. It blows my mind that people still don't understand the concept of Black Lives Matter, and why saying All Lives Matter is a red herring. At this point, if you still don't get it, I question your intelligence or intellectual honesty. Our current society treats black people as if their lives don't matter. We have seen SCORES of unarmed black people be killed in the street because they posed a vague threat, or simply just didn't follow orders. All Lives DO NOT matter RIGHT NOW, and that's the problem. I support fixing that problem. Anyone that shuts their ears and says "no no no, all lives matter" just simply doesn't get it, or doesn't want to. And let me get this straight. The police shoot and kill this guy with all of their cameras recording, and say that the video proves Scott jumped out of his car and pointed a gun at the police. And as parts of their city are burning, they STILL do not release evidence that could potentially calm the crowd? Also, police in San Francisco peacefully ended a 6 HOUR standoff with an armed man last night. I want you to guess the race of the suspect. Tell me again how we value black lives so much. The police in San Francicso valued that guys life. The police in Charlotte simply didn't. http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Possible-Standoff-Prompts-Evacuation-of-San-Francisco-Civic-Center-394687561.html

Man, the TAs on some LAPD units are just excessive. From the rear, those explorers look more like construction cars.

So when cops kill unarmed people, its incredibly rare and we should all look the other way because its just the media distorting our view of the world. But when cops are killed, its extremely common and a national epidemic and we should all be terrified. No, fuck that. I'm not going to throw myself on "team cops" and look the other way. And what the hell ever happened to "waiting for all the facts"? Are you seriously going to just say its Black Lives Matter without even being sure? So you're basically saying that if you protest against killings done by cops, you're automatically getting cops killed. You should be ashamed of yourself. There are serious injustices and inequalities in the country, committed all the time by people IN and OUT of uniform. I, like most Americans, stand AGAINST that. So far, this story has absolutely NOTHING to do with protests against disproportionate killings of black men. You see a black suspect in an attempted vehicle attack, and you automatically assume that its black people plotting to kill cops because Black Lives Matter told him to do it. You don't care about the facts, you just wanted to say some bad shit about a group of people you don't like in an online forum. This thread has no value.

Hey all, I'm looking for as many vehicles as I can find with functioning spotlights and environmental lighting. I'm using blackjesus's LSPD pack in my police slots, and I'm trying to fill my sheriff slots now but can't seem to find vehciles that meet that criteria. I'm kind of OCD, I hate when immersion is broken by lack of environmental lights, or if I have my spotlight script on but the spotlight on my car is facing down and dark.

Im a New Yorker, and of course I'll never forget. My dad was at work in the city that day, 10 blocks uptown. My friends dad was evacuated out of building 3 of the WTC and had to step over the bodies of the jumpers. I went to school with people without moms, and widowed coaches. There's four jerseys hanging in my high school's gymnasium, that belonged to the alumni that died. I'm not in high school anymore, but I remember very vividly what it's like to be forced to be reminded of this day. It's sometimes a little odd to see people in obscure parts of the country say "never forget", because New Yorkers will truly never be ABLE to forget. I still remember a family friend saying "we went to the hospital and asked if we could give blood, and the nurse said '....sir...we don't need blood. You either made it, or you didn't". Terrorism is, well, terrifying. The only way to fight terrorism is to not let your fear control you. I feel tremendous pride seeing the new World Trade Center, because the symbolism of building a taller building will do more to fight terrorism than any bullshit war. Oh, and that's another thing. You're going to see a lot of bullshit propaganda today. A lot of people peddle fear, hatred, and blood thirst on this day. Don't give into it. As a New Yorker, and someone personally affected by this tragedy, PLEASE don't give into it. Come together, grieve, and look to the future with an optimistic and kind heart.