We have a moron wanna be police officer around here. And one time Police asked for his help during a pursuit, because Police hadn't arrived yet. Can't stand the man... Has a criminal record, and still has its own Security Company and pretends to be the Police by really pulling over people. -.-

Zimmermans...

Some of you guys are making a mountain out of a mole-hill... "Security Forces" or "Security Police" is just a general term synonymous with a police officer (don't always trust what you hear on Wikipedia, but that's beside the point). What Eagle described in his first post is not the same as the "security police" described by Nutt and others.

The security police described in that Wikipedia link are sworn law enforcement officers at one of the government levels (local, county, state, federal, etc...) just like any other law enforcement officer. They go through an "academy" just like any other patrol officer would. Most of those governmental police officers go through here: http://www.fletc.gov/

As for the main point of this thread, security guards... Within my county where I'm a sheriff's deputy we have a few security companies that are hired by neighborhoods or businesses to provide armed security. I won't discount their job because I certainly wouldn't want to do it, but they are nothing more than what you think a normal security guard is except some carry guns (which is scary because I can tell you they aren't trained to a fraction of the level I'm trained, but I digress). In my specific zone, one of the primary companies is CIS (http://cisworldservices.org/services/patrol.html) and their website make them sound like an incredibly well-trained government agency, but they are nothing more than security guards. They usually patrol neighborhoods and then alert us if anything is going on. Most importantly, they certainly deter crime especially due to the fact that their vehicles look quite intimidating and similar to law enforcement vehicles.

The problem with these guys is that they have no law enforcement powers and therefore tend to let their egos get in the way. In a couple of the neighborhoods in my zone they either initiate calls for us (open doors, prowlers, suspicious people/vehicles, etc...) or I think they listen to our scanners and respond to calls we get dispatched on because occasionally they show up or even beat me to the call. Sometimes they are a nice help such as when my district is very busy and it is going to be tough to get a backup unit to my location in a timely fashion to clear a residence with an open door or signs of forced entry. I don't like to clear structures alone, so sometimes one of them goes in behind me if I'm not going to wait on another deputy to come with me. They usually enjoy the chance to draw their gun and act like a cop for 10 minutes, so it works for both of us. However, I had an incident where the guy was clearly poorly trained and kept flagging me with the muzzle end of his firearm so after a couple times of that I finally told him to holster his gun and get out of my sight. I don't need someone like that on a call with me.

Short version: The security companies, as described in the first post, are nothing more than your typical security guards who patrol and report suspicious activity to police. In most places they have no authority beyond what is afforded to every citizen, protect yourself from imminent great bodily harm if needed but they can't take any legal action against someone unless it is a felony in progress. In most states, a "citizens arrest" can only legally be performed if a felony is in progress.

From my few visit's in the fine country of the US of A, i have noticed they have security in Marked Vehicles WITH SIDEARM'S, that worries me, cause they have rank patches, patrol in marked i guess you could say police cruiser's,, the only marked and ARMED security we have is Securicars, we have Paladin Security, Securitas, Parking Enforcement (which should be armed with the BS they deal with) Commissionaires, i REALLY don't like commissionaires Sagittarious Security i believe is former Military and Police Officer's, but none mentioned have any real police power's, and from what i know, Canada doesn't have "private security", the only real form of armed security patrol in Canada is the RCMP, which are into every aspect of Policing (Security) and are often used as Security, although much bigger on the West Coast (Vancouver) they have very small restricted jurisdiction, considering their role in Security and Policing, who know's, maybe it's because the reputation they have..

A Security Guard Has designated patrol's like a police officer but the difference being, a cop has more jurisdiction then a mall or small business,

To repeat, there are armed and sworn privately employed police in the US. Specifically, railroad and campus police are employed by private organizations. However, that's not what "security police" means. Nor does it mean the same thing as "patrol security" organizations.

Slimory: AFAIK, armed security are not supposed to use their guns like cops. They have them for self-defense and defense of others, and aren't supposed to draw them unless there is an imminent danger (while cops can have their weapons out in a lot more cases). Also, they don't have the legal protections of cops.

the only marked and ARMED security we have is Securicars, we have Paladin Security, Securitas,

Those are armoured car guards which under the Private Security Act are authorized to carry firearms although they have no peace officer status whatsoever

Parking Enforcement (which should be armed with the BS they deal with)

I could debate about that because PEO's do not have the same training as say Special Constables or Police Constables although they do deal with a lot of crap.

Commissionaires, i REALLY don't like commissionaires Sagittarious Security i believe is former Military and Police Officer's, but none mentioned have any real police power's,

Never heard of Sagittarious but Commissionaires are the only security company I know in Canada that more than 75% of it's force are former military, law enforcement or RCMP. We (Federal Government) contract the Commissionaires to provide phsyical security for all Federal owned property to include Military establishments etc. They don't have peace officer status which is funny because I have more power than they do under the Criminal Code and National Defence Act, yet they can deny me entrance to my own work place.

and from what i know, Canada doesn't have "private security",

All those companies that you just listed are Private Security companies; Canada has a stark difference, you are either considered a Peace Officer or Special Constable there is no such thing as a "Security Police" organization or force the only force that can be considered as such are the Military Police and even then they are Sworn Federal Peace Officers (as are all members of the Military).

the only real form of armed security patrol in Canada is the RCMP, which are into every aspect of Policing (Security) and are often used as Security,

You have to be careful with those words. The RCMP provides protection to only Parliament Hill and designated Federal Officials (Prime Minister, Governor General etc.) other than that they do not provide security; Court Security is provided by Special Constables sworn through a local law enforcement agency or Sheriffs (Majority of provinces have Sheriff Services)

although much bigger on the West Coast (Vancouver) they have very small restricted jurisdiction, considering their role in Security and Policing, who know's, maybe it's because the reputation they have..

The RCMP provides 85% of Law Enforcement Services in B.C. through a contract from the Provincial Government.

A Security Guard Has designated patrol's like a police officer but the difference being, a cop has more jurisdiction then a mall or small business,

Half correct; the difference is a Security Guard is not considered a Peace Officer as defined by the criminal code, they have no powers of arrest although they may detain someone, if given a Provincial Offences Officer status then they are authorized to fine and cite people on their property.

Edited May 18, 201213 yr by Comm

I never said "armoured" security had the peace officer status,at all, pretty much all of what you said i mentioned, i didn't,i didn't say Parking Enforecment was in any way releated to the Police, i'm talking about Securitas PEO, never said they were in anyway a peace officer either... Sheriff is not RCMP, i was also just stating that they are the ONLY REAL armed "security force".

and the last part..wrong.. Security have designated foot patrol's as well as mobile patrol, although they do not have any power to arrest someone as you say, that's wrong too, someone security companies offer handcuff certication training, even if they were to arrest/detain someone, anyone can do a citizen's arrest, they just aern't armed and at the end of the day, they just a security guard who patrol's, to report to the police.

@Cp702- i don't think canada even has armed security, although being armed, the paygrade better be worth it.

Edited May 18, 201213 yr by Slimory

Whether or not they're armed relates more to the country's firearm control legislation than anything else.

There is probably confusion between the two of you about official definitions of arrest versus apprehension. Generally they are used interchangeably but I think specifically here Comm means they cannot arrest as a police officer could.

Also it's important not to generalise about the roles private security may fill. Although you can have security guards that may maintain observation/patrol a certain area or point of a company's interest, you can also have cash collection agencies, retail loss prevention officers, bouncers and even more managerial type roles etc. that all fall under the heading of private security personnel, but that doesn't mean they have to patrol. It also doesn't mean they can't manage without police.

Edited May 18, 201213 yr by Ekalb

@Cp702- i don't think canada even has armed security, although being armed, the paygrade better be worth it.

I don't think so either; I was talking mostly about the US. Though, are your armored truck guards armed?

and the last part..wrong.. Security have designated foot patrol's as well as mobile patrol, although they do not have any power to arrest someone as you say, that's wrong too, someone security companies offer handcuff certication training, even if they were to arrest/detain someone, anyone can do a citizen's arrest, they just aern't armed and at the end of the day, they just a security guard who patrol's, to report to the police.

There is probably confusion between the two of you about official definitions of arrest versus apprehension. Generally they are used interchangeably but I think specifically here Comm means they cannot arrest as a police officer could.

I should have been more clear. This is correct as citizens arrest does not constitute the same meaning as full arrest by a peace officer.

I never said "armoured" security had the peace officer status,at all, pretty much all of what you said i mentioned, i didn't,i didn't say Parking Enforecment was in any way releated to the Police, i'm talking about Securitas PEO, never said they were in anyway a peace officer either...

I was defining two very distinct roles here in Canada. Anyone employed by a company who are authorized to cite people on private property are no longer "Security Officers" rather they are designated as "Provincial Offences Officers" which carries more responsibilities and status.

Sheriff is not RCMP, i was also just stating that they are the ONLY REAL armed "security force".

Never said they were. Again you refer the RCMP as a security force, they are not a security force, they are a law enforcement organization. Security Force in Canada refers to Private Security Companies (Garda, Intelligarde etc. etc.).

Two distinct roles Security Officer and Peace Officer/Special Constable

@Cp702- i don't think canada even has armed security, although being armed, the paygrade better be worth it.

Armoured Car guards are armed and they are security guards.

@Cp702- they are armed (armoured) security guards, but they only guard the truck

@Comm- i wasn't saying they aern't a law enforcement organization, i was stating they DO act as security force when needed.. they do airport security in British Columbia, do they not?

Armoured Guards are Security Guards, but they have jurisidiction where the armoured truck sit's unless the company offer's other services like mobile patrol, an ARMOURED armed guard, guards the armoured truck, that's his job.

They've got orange lights on the roof, not blue-red lights, they aren't authorised to do actual policing, but only their security job.

Just like any other civilian they can perform a citizens arrest, their cars are decommissioned cop cars, and might come with the cage fitted.

It's a clear imitation on police, I doubt the local police is happy about them using such close imitations.

I see them all the time... the guys I ride with, We HATE them....

Lol, we saw a silbar CVPI with a headlight out... and we were about to stop him, but a priority call came out.... needless to say we didnt get to stop him.

@Comm- i wasn't saying they aern't a law enforcement organization, i was stating they DO act as security force when needed.. they do airport security in British Columbia, do they not?

They provide law enforcement services to the airport, not "security" in the sense that the OP was talking about. Airport Security is not the same as Security as we are discussing about.

As for your "security force" illustration. Half correct, it is true that if a situation arises where a "surge" is needed then the RCMP will respond having said that so will us in the Military and we provide the "security force" whereas the RCMP can concentrate on law enforcement duties. Hence the military involvement in the Olympics, G-8/G20, Royal Visits etc. I would know because we've been activated quite a number of times.

Private Security Companies still provide 100% of the screening of passengers as ordered by Transport Canada and NAV Canada.

Armoured Guards are Security Guards, but they have jurisidiction where the armoured truck sit's unless the company offer's other services like mobile patrol, an ARMOURED armed guard, guards the armoured truck, that's his job.

Correct, but you were not classifying them as such in an earlier response. In addition they also have guard the cash transfers, I would know because two of my good friends worked as armed security for a total of four years; and they always try to recruit military members.

Quote "@Cp702- i don't think canada even has armed security, although being armed, the paygrade better be worth it."

Hence that's why I was merely trying to correct that fact that Canada as Armed Security who work as Armoured Guards.

I shouldn't need to "classify" them as most people, i'm sure would read between the lines, and not get technical and quote every post i made about the RCMP, but i'm assuming from a previous post, you work for the Canadian Government, and you live in British Columbia, am i correct? if you wanna get technical, it's a Wiki page, but if i'm not mistaken, everything on that page is about security, which i would imagine, would apply to most or all police department's? minus a few advantages police have over security guard's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security, http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/ts-st/index-eng.htm

Edited May 18, 201213 yr by Slimory

I shouldn't need to "classify" them as most people, i'm sure would read between the lines, and not get technical and quote every post i made about the RCMP, but i'm assuming from a previous post, you work for the Canadian Government, and you live in British Columbia, am i correct?

I do work for an uniformed organization whose office is a portfolio of one of the Departments within the Federal Government, and I live in Ontario. I do have many friends who are/were/posted to British Columbia. Plus I'm also a Criminology student who unfortunately has had to read the Criminal Code and various acts.

My job has made me very thorough about details especially about these things.

if you wanna get technical, it's a Wiki page, but if i'm not mistaken, everything on that page is about security, which i would imagine, would apply to most or all police department's? minus a few advantages police have over security guard's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security, http://www.rcmp-grc....t/index-eng.htm

The workshop provided by the RCMP is actually for government employees and agencies to learn about security measures they can use and implement in their workplace. They don't actually provide people to secure these facilities; those workshops are really dry.

I should have corrected myself earlier; you are correct in that Police provide certain security options for certain areas (Mass Transit, Key Government locations etc.) but they are not a "Security Force" or "Security Police" they are still classified as Police Officers performing a law enforcement duty. The only actual organization that you can classify as a "Security Force" would be the Military Police at NDHQ in Ottawa even then they are considered a law enforcement agency with full peace officer status and not "Security" in the sense of "Private Security".

Even then the majority of the actual security patrols that you have mentioned earlier are preformed by private security guards, example Union Station in Toronto is patrolled by G4S security guards whilst GO Transit platforms and stations are patrolled by Special Constables with Peace Officer Status.

Private Security or Security Force generally refers to a Private Company (with no Peace Officer status) and not an actual Law Enforcement Agency. Rail Police (CPR, CN) are actually sworn peace officers under the rail act. I think that's the mix up between the two of us; I can't talk about the States but in Canada we have a pretty clear distinction. If we were to talk about Private Military Companies whole different story