www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VpGgp0nCjE

Gardena police recently shot a male who they believed stole a bicycle, according to the police the man was being erratic and suspicious, police took no chance and shot him eight times. 

News stories here: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-gardena-police-shooting-experts-question-officers-tactics-20150715-story.html

http://www.newsday.com/news/nation/ricardo-diaz-zeferino-man-fatally-shot-by-gardena-california-cops-judge-may-rule-to-release-video-1.10639630

By recent, you mean in 2013?

 

Anyway, I'd say bad shoot. Guy wasn't hostile, just not listening to the officer's commands. Unfortunately all it takes is one rookie cop to have an itchy trigger finger, and the other officers won't usually second guess him and start firing assuming there is a legitimate threat. 

By recent, you mean in 2013?

 

Anyway, I'd say bad shoot. Guy wasn't hostile, just not listening to the officer's commands. Unfortunately all it takes is one rookie cop to have an itchy trigger finger, and the other officers won't usually second guess him and start firing assuming there is a legitimate threat. 

Oops, didn't notice that. 

From the looks of the video, it looks like the suspect was taking his hat off. Maybe that action caused the officer to believe that there was a threat. However, it just seems uncommon for a weapon to be hidden in a hat that someone is wearing. Maybe I am wrong though. Even though I believed that the officer should have just arrested the suspect, he did what he had to do.

I was actually talking with someone else about this before. While I don't agree with the shooting I can understand the justification given. The initial call that was received was for a possible armed robbery when it was actually just a theft, so the responding officers assumed that the suspects were armed. When the officers had them at gunpoint and the guy was standing sideways to them the officers couldn't see his right hand. The individual kept moving his hands and at the point he was shot his hand was at his waist and out of view from the other officers.

Like I said, I don't agree with it and I think they were a little to quick to be on the trigger but the law says that is a justifiable shooting. What makes it even worse in my opinion is that the agency tried (via court order) to keep the video from being release to the public. Hiding evidence is not a good way to gain trust in the community and doesn't reflect well on your agency. It is even more unfortunate that the group of men were actually friends of the victim from the theft and were trying to help find the stolen bicycle.

I was actually talking with someone else about this before. While I don't agree with the shooting I can understand the justification given. The initial call that was received was for a possible armed robbery when it was actually just a theft, so the responding officers assumed that the suspects were armed. When the officers had them at gunpoint and the guy was standing sideways to them the officers couldn't see his right hand. The individual kept moving his hands and at the point he was shot his hand was at his waist and out of view from the other officers.

Like I said, I don't agree with it and I think they were a little to quick to be on the trigger but the law says that is a justifiable shooting. What makes it even worse in my opinion is that the agency tried (via court order) to keep the video from being release to the public. Hiding evidence is not a good way to gain trust in the community and doesn't reflect well on your agency. It is even more unfortunate that the group of men were actually friends of the victim from the theft and were trying to help find the stolen bicycle.

Well said, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights emphasizes that the people have the right to know what goes on in their communities. 

Another day in America.

If you can't arrest an unarmed suspect without gunning him down in the street, you shouldn't be a cop. Its that simple. If you can't tell the difference between taking off a hat and reaching for a gun, you're too paranoid to be a cop. But then again that's just my opinion, probably not a popular one.

Another day in America.

If you can't arrest an unarmed suspect without gunning him down in the street, you shouldn't be a cop. Its that simple. If you can't tell the difference between taking off a hat and reaching for a gun, you're too paranoid to be a cop. But then again that's just my opinion, probably not a popular one.

Here we go again. You sure know a lot about the job of a police officer for someone with no training or job experience in that field. You should apply to be the chief of police somewhere or apply to be an instructor at an academy, I'm sure you infinite knowledge and wisdom in all things law enforcement would be very appreciated by these paranoid thug cops.

Here we go again. You sure know a lot about the job of a police officer for someone with no training or job experience in that field. You should apply to be the chief of police somewhere or apply to be an instructor at an academy, I'm sure you infinite knowledge and wisdom in all things law enforcement would be very appreciated by these paranoid thug cops.

Oh right, I'm sorry. This is a perfect example of good police work. Their paranoia got an innocent man killed, which means they're unable to protect and serve the community. By definition, they are the same public safety threat that they are supposed to counter-act. Gang members gun down people in the street like this. If they're unable to set themselves apart from gang members, they shouldn't be cops.

That shouldn't be a ridiculous opinion. I'm not saying "Fuck the police", and I'm not saying all cops are bad. But there's a certain paranoia that cops have, and every now and then it get someone killed. The whole point of the "few bad apples" argument is that you have to be willing to point out the bad apples when you see them.

The victim in this case is the one who wanted the police to help him find his brother's bike. If this keeps happening, people in these communities will stop calling the police. Its bad for public safety, immediately and systemically for cops to be this paranoid. Not saying they're horrible people, but they should find another line of work.

Edited July 18, 201510 yr by Riley24

Oh right, I'm sorry. This is a perfect example of good police work. Their paranoia got an innocent man killed, which means they're unable to protect and serve the community. By definition, they are the same public safety threat that they are supposed to counter-act. Gang members gun down people in the street like this. If they're unable to set themselves apart from gang members, they shouldn't be cops.

That shouldn't be a ridiculous opinion. I'm not saying "Fuck the police", and I'm not saying all cops are bad. But there's a certain paranoia that cops have, and every now and then it get someone killed. The whole point of the "few bad apples" argument is that you have to be willing to point out the bad apples when you see them.

The victim in this case is the one who wanted the police to help him find his brother's bike. If this keeps happening, people in these communities will stop calling the police. Its bad for public safety, immediately and systemically for cops to be this paranoid. Not saying they're horrible people, but they should find another line of work.

I didn't say it was a perfect example, actually if you read my original comment on this topic you will have noticed that I don't agree with this shooting or how the agency handled it afterwards. The thing that gets me is despite the fact that you are saying "I'm not saying all cops are bad" your first comment was "Another day in America" as if this is a common occurrence and that the police are just a roving gang shooting people for no reason. Then of course adding your expert knowledge on law enforcement tactics, but I've already covered that. 

I didn't say it was a perfect example, actually if you read my original comment on this topic you will have noticed that I don't agree with this shooting or how the agency handled it afterwards. The thing that gets me is despite the fact that you are saying "I'm not saying all cops are bad" your first comment was "Another day in America" as if this is a common occurrence and that the police are just a roving gang shooting people for no reason. Then of course adding your expert knowledge on law enforcement tactics, but I've already covered that. 

Question: How many videos and stories of cops shooting unarmed people would you have to watch to think that there's something wrong with police culture and use of force policies? 

I say "Another day in America" because cases like this pop up every so often all across the country. I've heard of multiple stories recently of US cops innocent shooting people due to imperfect hand placement. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yEQDBSt58w

Remember this case? Notice the similarities between this case and the one in the OP. Still don't think cops might have a little bit of a paranoia problem?

Welcome to Southern California.

 The thing that gets me is despite the fact that you are saying "I'm not saying all cops are bad" your first comment was "Another day in America" as if this is a common occurrence and that the police are just a roving gang shooting people for no reason.

Denying that it doesn't happen often would be a bit foolish. Even here in France where news don't cover all international news, we regularly hear "Another police-involved shooting in the United States caused the death of X people". And the answer of everyone here is "Well, here we go again". It is a common occurence, especially lately.

Question: How many videos and stories of cops shooting unarmed people would you have to watch to think that there's something wrong with police culture and use of force policies? 

I say "Another day in America" because cases like this pop up every so often all across the country. I've heard of multiple stories recently of US cops innocent shooting people due to imperfect hand placement. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yEQDBSt58w

Remember this case? Notice the similarities between this case and the one in the OP. Still don't think cops might have a little bit of a paranoia problem?

Denying that it doesn't happen often would be a bit foolish. Even here in France where news don't cover all international news, we regularly hear "Another police-involved shooting in the United States caused the death of X people". And the answer of everyone here is "Well, here we go again". It is a common occurence, especially lately.

It appears to be a common occurrence because the media decides to cover it non-stop. I can make anything sound like a common occurrence if my news channel covers it 16 hours a day. That is the problem today, the media only focuses on the negative aspects of police work and it makes people think that all cops are out of control. No where did I say that it doesn't happen or that it shouldn't be addressed when it does happen but to make it sound like it happens everyday is insulting to the 99% of officers who go out and do their job the right way. I look at each shooting individually and learn from it. Each officer is different and each situation is different, I don't watch 5 videos of police shootings and think "well that must be how all cops are trained and all cops must be fucked up". And a fact you seemed to have decided to omit from that video you posted was that trooper was fired and charged with a felony that could carry up to 20 years in prison, so clearly everyone agrees that he fucked up and that he should be held accountable for it but that part of the story doesn't help the point you are trying to make does it?

It appears to be a common occurrence because the media decides to cover it non-stop. I can make anything sound like a common occurrence if my news channel covers it 16 hours a day. That is the problem today, the media only focuses on the negative aspects of police work and it makes people think that all cops are out of control. No where did I say that it doesn't happen or that it shouldn't be addressed when it does happen but to make it sound like it happens everyday is insulting to the 99% of officers who go out and do their job the right way. I look at each shooting individually and learn from it. Each officer is different and each situation is different, I don't watch 5 videos of police shootings and think "well that must be how all cops are trained and all cops must be fucked up". And a fact you seemed to have decided to omit from that video you posted was that trooper was fired and charged with a felony that could carry up to 20 years in prison, so clearly everyone agrees that he fucked up and that he should be held accountable for it but that part of the story doesn't help the point you are trying to make does it?

That's not looking at things individually, that's willfully keeping the dots unconnected. If there were this many videos of postal workers running people over, or firefighters accidentally impaling people with axes, we'd think "huh, maybe there's something wrong here". 

The problem is is that there are so many, and there are so many similarities. Race, socio-economic status, improper hand placement, or mental illness appear in almost all of them. These aren't random coincidences, they're symptoms. For the 100th time, I beg you to actually listen to me - I am not saying that "all cops are bad". It's just that there are systemic problems within departments across the country. 

If you want to hear it from an actual police officer with no reason to lie, watch an interview with Michael A. Woods jr. He talks about everything that I've been telling you and more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ndg-JGmYryA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5nPyf-0

 

That's not looking at things individually, that's willfully keeping the dots unconnected. If there were this many videos of postal workers running people over, or firefighters accidentally impaling people with axes, we'd think "huh, maybe there's something wrong here". 

The problem is is that there are so many, and there are so many similarities. Race, socio-economic status, improper hand placement, or mental illness appear in almost all of them. These aren't random coincidences, they're symptoms. For the 100th time, I beg you to actually listen to me - I am not saying that "all cops are bad". It's just that there are systemic problems within departments across the country. 

If you want to hear it from an actual police officer with no reason to lie, watch an interview with Michael A. Woods jr. He talks about everything that I've been telling you and more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ndg-JGmYryA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5nPyf-0

 

Do you have evidence that connects them? If so please let me know because it would be news to me. Do you want to know another similarity in the majority of cases? The fact that the suspect was almost always not following the lawful commands of the officer. With the exception of a few cases the suspect was always moving around, resisting arrest, or doing something else that they were being told not to do. Am I saying that disobeying commands means you should be shot and killed? No, absolutely not. However, these situations would not be happening if people just did what they were supposed to do.

No reason to lie? Everyone has a reason to tell their story. I don't have time to listen to 3 hours of interviews but the bits and pieces I did listen to already makes me suspicious of this guy's motives. He says he had to leave the police force due to an injury in 2009 yet doesn't decide to go public with his stories until now when all the media coverage is on law enforcement? I refuse to even watch the second video because The Young Turks have lost all of my respect as a reputable news agency. The amount of bullshit propaganda they have spewed and blatantly inaccurate statements they have made has made me lose all respect for any of their so called "journalist". TYT might just be the only news agency I hate more than Fox News.

Do you have evidence that connects them? If so please let me know because it would be news to me. Do you want to know another similarity in the majority of cases? 

Serious question: what would it take for you to see a systemic problem? Not to touch too much on the race issue, but the fact that a black man living in Southern California feels the same as a black man living in Harlem doesn't mean nothing. There is not some grand, nation-wide conspiracy against police officers to make up or over-exaggerate stories of misconduct or abuse. Parents are telling their children that its safer if they don't call 911, and honestly in some cases, they're probably right. Ricardo Diaz Zeferino would be alive if he didn't call 911.

The fact that the suspect was almost always not following the lawful commands of the officer. With the exception of a few cases the suspect was always moving around, resisting arrest, or doing something else that they were being told not to do. Am I saying that disobeying commands means you should be shot and killed? No, absolutely not. However, these situations would not be happening if people just did what they were supposed to do.

"The biggest crime in America is disrespecting a police officer". 

No reason to lie? Everyone has a reason to tell their story. I don't have time to listen to 3 hours of interviews but the bits and pieces I did listen to already makes me suspicious of this guy's motives. He says he had to leave the police force due to an injury in 2009 yet doesn't decide to go public with his stories until now when all the media coverage is on law enforcement? I refuse to even watch the second video because The Young Turks have lost all of my respect as a reputable news agency. The amount of bullshit propaganda they have spewed and blatantly inaccurate statements they have made has made me lose all respect for any of their so called "journalist". TYT might just be the only news agency I hate more than Fox News.

Well of course, he was given a little bit of the spotlight after the Freddie Grey, because he and Joe Crystal were the only ones from BPD that were willing to come forward. Michael Woods is a former Marine and police officer. He has much more credibility than either of us. If you're not willing to hear what he has to say, that is completely on you. The fact is, what he has to say is completely rational, and people in these communities have been living this everyday for years. No amount of debating is going to change that fact.

 

Serious question: what would it take for you to see a systemic problem? Not to touch too much on the race issue, but the fact that a black man living in Southern California feels the same as a black man living in Harlem doesn't mean nothing. There is not some grand, nation-wide conspiracy against police officers to make up or over-exaggerate stories of misconduct or abuse. Parents are telling their children that its safer if they don't call 911, and honestly in some cases, they're probably right. Ricardo Diaz Zeferino would be alive if he didn't call 911.

"The biggest crime in America is disrespecting a police officer". 

Well of course, he was given a little bit of the spotlight after the Freddie Grey, because he and Joe Crystal were the only ones from BPD that were willing to come forward. Michael Woods is a former Marine and police officer. He has much more credibility than either of us. If you're not willing to hear what he has to say, that is completely on you. The fact is, what he has to say is completely rational, and people in these communities have been living this everyday for years. No amount of debating is going to change that fact.

It would take me seeing these controversial shootings happening more common than they really are. As I said before, I think the media is the one to blame for all this up roar over an issue that isn't nearly as widespread as people want to believe it is. Are there systemic problems in the criminal justice system? Yes and they should be addressed but this is not one of them.

I like how you always want to twist my words or change the meaning of what I said. I didn't say anything about being disrespectful to police. The suspects in most of these cases were not obeying a lawful command and/or resisting arrest. Why is it hard for you to accept that fact?

The only reason I question his motives and credibility is because of the timing of his decision to go public. He left the police force in 2009 but didn't come forward until 2015? So apparently the stuff he saw didn't bother him for all that time he was a police officer or for the 6 years after he got out. He didn't want to speak up then so what is his motive for coming out now? I'm not saying that he is lying or that he doesn't know what he is talking about, I am just suspicious of a person who doesn't say anything for that long then when the media spotlight is out jumps right up. As for being a former Marine, I respect him for serving our country but that has no relevancy to law enforcement so it has no influence on my opinion of him.

'Suppose I'll throw in my .02, I think cops' for the most part nowadays are paranoid, but at the same time I don't blame them. For the past few years the build up of unnecessary violence against Police is atrocious, in fact of last year our Police force has nearly phased out Officers being alone on duty, being replaced by two officers per car, even our K-9 division is accompanied by two officers and the dog, whereas it used to be the dog and the handler. There's been so many incidents of 911 calls coming in and an officer being dispatched only to be ambushed by a few thugs and gunned down, most don't even get the chance to leave their car before it even happens. Yet the problem that I'm seeing is that the Media relishes at the fact that they can get a far greater reaction either racially or by public opinion of an officer shooting someone, rather than that of an officer being killed in the line of duty. If you can get the general public, preferably those of a different colour to "go up in arms" then that in of itself is a far greater story to cover. 

For the past couple years gun violence against those who serve has grown extensively, not just the Police but Military personnel too (although that comes in the way of terrorism, a different subject altogether), but still, it would strike paranoia and in general, being scared, more cautious and prone to pull the trigger before something happens to you. Again, the Media eats this up and ONLY covers these type of stories, negative stories are far more lucrative for them. There is definitely bad cops out there, and there is definitely screw ups - but at the same time people seem to forgot that both the Military and Police are humans too. 

 

It would take me seeing these controversial shootings happening more common than they really are. As I said before, I think the media is the one to blame for all this up roar over an issue that isn't nearly as widespread as people want to believe it is. Are there systemic problems in the criminal justice system? Yes and they should be addressed but this is not one of them.

Ok, so what systematic problems exist and why are police officers devoid of blame for that problem?

I like how you always want to twist my words or change the meaning of what I said. I didn't say anything about being disrespectful to police. The suspects in most of these cases were not obeying a lawful command and/or resisting arrest. Why is it hard for you to accept that fact?

Just a little quote that came to mind. And its hard for me to accept that because its complete bullshit to be frank. Have you ever had four guns with blinding lights pointed at you with people shouting at you? We don't know how we would react, or what we would do with our hands, we simply don't. Not listening/resisting is not a legitimate reason to end someones life. And I've heard you say that before, so why do you bother bringing it up? Does part of you want to blame the victim for getting shot?

As for being a former Marine, I respect him for serving our country but that has no relevancy to law enforcement so it has no influence on my opinion of him.
 

Actually, it does. He talks about how because of how much weapons training he has, and how he wasn't scared when he was interacting with people in the hood, because he knew that he could use his weapon to protect himself. He also talked about how scared the other officers were, and how they could have used some better training to eliminate that fear.