Ah, I love this argument of "homosexuality is not natural". Allow me to quote an artical article (dat spelling) from the RationalWiki: 

 

 

"It's not natural"

This is an inherently weak and uncogent objection. This argument is a blatant rendition of the appeal to nature, as it assumes that what is natural is acceptable or better and what is unnatural is not. What this would entail logically is that adultery, infanticide, cannibalism, and nakedness must be acceptable as they are "natural," while playing checkers, sleeping on a bed, wearing clothes and indeed cooking meat are not "natural" and thus unacceptable. Most homophobic persons typically do not advocate creating laws outlawing things such as sleeping on beds, not to mention that using computers isn't natural either — yet homophobes clearly use computers since their hate sites exist.

Moreover, even if it did logically follow that what is natural is good, it turns out that homosexuality occurs in nature; biologists have extensively documented same-sex behavior in over 500 species of animals and observed it in a total of 1,500 species of animals.^[3][4]Bonobos, for example, are known for indulging in almost any "perversion" humanity has thought of — and perhaps some we've missed out on. Mammals aren't the only kind of animal that do this either.^[5]

 

 

You can find the entire article here: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Homophobia#Rationalizations_of_homophobia

It's interesting to read because it reduces to nothingness all the arguments used by people against homosexuality.

I will not be convinced to accept homosexuality, regardless of any opposition I face as I've already stated. While I do understand what this article is saying, I just simply disagree with it.

I will not be convinced to accept homosexuality, regardless of any opposition I face as I've already stated. While I do understand what this article is saying, I just simply disagree with it.

Then why host the discussion in the first place? If nothing anyone can say, regardless of how well reasoned or supported by scientific fact it is, why even participate in the discussion. You mentioned ignorance earlier, your above comment is prime example of it.

Then why host the discussion in the first place? If nothing anyone can say, regardless of how well reasoned or supported by scientific fact it is, why even participate in the discussion. You mentioned ignorance earlier, your above comment is prime example of it.

You challenged my opinion initially by saying you didn't understand how one could oppose homosexuality. If you hadn't challenged me, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I like to debate homosexuality because I'm interested in hearing what others have to say on the matter. Not because I want to change my own opinion.

 

Ignorance is a lack of knowledge. I don't understand how me not wanting to participate in a debate makes me ignorant. What knowledge am I lacking in by not wanting to participate?

Edited January 13, 201511 yr by CriminalKillaz

You challenged my opinion initially by saying you didn't understand how one could oppose homosexuality. If you hadn't challenged me, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I like to debate homosexuality because I'm interested in hearing what others have to say on the matter. Not because I want to change my own opinion.

 

Ignorance is a lack of knowledge. I don't understand how me not wanting to participate in a debate makes me ignorant. What knowledge am I lacking in by not wanting to participate?

Ignorance can also be the intentional disregarding of valid of information. We've presented you with well reasoned and logical arguments, and we get circularity in return. 

 

"Homosexuality is wrong."

 

"Why do you think that way? Here is a counterargument to your position:....."

 

"Its wrong because I think its wrong."

 

That is what this thread has been. You haven't given an actual explanation for your position besides "muh beliefs." Perhaps because there are no good arguments against homosexual behavior? I didn't think it would be necessary to mention but it seems like it might be at this point. I'm bisexual. I've had sex with both men and women. I cannot possibly fathom how anything I've done is wrong in any way whatsoever.

Edited January 13, 201511 yr by SIR_Sergeant

Ignorance can also be the intentional disregarding of valid of information. We've presented you with well reasoned and logical arguments, and we get circularity in return. 

 

"Homosexuality is wrong."

 

"Why do you think that way? Here is a counterargument to your position:....."

 

"Its wrong because I think its wrong."

 

That is what this thread has been. You haven't given an actual explanation for your position besides "muh beliefs." Perhaps because there are no good arguments against homosexual behavior?

This is what I find very interesting about this forum since I've been here. Almost every debate I've been drawn into, this has occurred. I state my opinion, the opposing party states their opinion.

 

I address their opinion, and they reject my opinion and throw out more arguments. I address their opinion, they reject my opinion, and throw out more arguments. As I've said several times now which nobody has yet to address as usual, I disagree with homosexuality because of personal morals, values, and beliefs that I hold. No one has yet to ask what those values are, what those beliefs are, why I have such strict morals.

 

It's like I put a coin on the table, and you take it and throw it onto the floor, then you put a coin on the table.

This is what I find very interesting about this forum since I've been here. Almost every debate I've been drawn into, this has occurred. I state my opinion, the opposing party states their opinion.

 

I address their opinion, and they reject my opinion and throw out more arguments. I address their opinion, they reject my opinion, and throw out more arguments. As I've said several times now which nobody has yet to address as usual, I disagree with homosexuality because of personal morals, values, and beliefs that I hold. No one has yet to ask what those values are, what those beliefs are, why I have such strict morals.

 

It's like I put a coin on the table, and you take it and throw it onto the floor, then you put a coin on the table.

That's on you for not discussing them. How could we have been expected respond any differently if you give nothing to go on.

 

Please, lets hear what your beliefs are and what makes them valid. Explain them.

That's on you for not discussing them. How could we have been expected respond any differently if you give nothing to go on.

 

Please, lets hear what your beliefs are and what makes them valid. Explain them.

It can't be on me for not discussing them if I didn't want to discuss them in the first place, LOL! This is where everything loops around in a big circle of nonsense, which is to be expected on the internet.

 

I already have in small segments across this discussion, which I didn't want to have to begin with, but I was drawn into:

 

Though I disagree with homosexuality I believe that in the United States, all people are eligible to equal rights under the United States Constitution, and the Bill of Rights. With that being said, I disagree with homosexuality in any way, shape, or form; But I believe that you should have the right to marry who you please, regardless of gender, race, etc.

 

In my opinion, homosexuality is not natural. If we didn't have the advanced technologies we have now, how would same-sex couples reproduce? Something called mechanical isolation is the answer. Some things just simply aren't physically possible, and when something isn't naturally possible, it can't be naturally correct.

 

If we weren't supposed to reproduce, regardless of religious beliefs, men wouldn't have a penis and women wouldn't have a vagina. If we break it down further, men wouldn't have sperm cells. Then what fun would sexual intercourse be lol   .

 

I disagree. This would be considered a raw version of "Follow the leader". Just because other species act a certain way, doesn't mean that we should as well. That's like my dog jumping into a pile of doodoo and chewing on it like bubble gum. That doesn't mean that it would be okay if I did it as well, it would be absurd and disgusting.

 

The moral of the story here is that I disagree with homosexuality because I don't believe it's natural, I don't believe it's right, it's against my religious beliefs, it's against traditional American values and morals (Man and Woman = Child), and I just simply don't have a good feeling about it. As I've already stated again, several times now, I do believe that homosexuality should not prevent marriage. In other words, I believe that gays should have the right to marry.

i personally think Louisiana and many other states (Alabama,Arkansas,Georgia ext..) in this country might as well be a different country`s.And in some cases give this country a bad rep all over the world.I know its not everyone in these state but there are many who have this constant non progressive thinking and logic.

 

My philosophy- Your religion should never effect someone else`s beliefs or rights.I think Gay marriage should be legal.They should have the opportunity to be just as miserable as the rest of us.And even though gay people can not reproduce to gather i believe their are enough orphaned children from Crap straight parents to go around.   

Edited January 13, 201511 yr by element2586

It can't be on me for not discussing them if I didn't want to discuss them in the first place, LOL! This is where everything loops around in a big circle of nonsense, which is to be expected on the internet.

 

The moral of the story here is that I disagree with homosexuality because I don't believe it's natural, I don't believe it's right, it's against my religious beliefs, it's against traditional American values and morals (Man and Woman = Child), and I just simply don't have a good feeling about it. As I've already stated again, several times now, I do believe that homosexuality should not prevent marriage. In other words, I believe that gays should have the right to marry.

Surely you didn't expect everyone on this forum to either ignore the subject or agree with you. It should be expected that if you post something debatable, the debate will likely be had,

 

"Traditional American values" is such a politician answer. Absolutely devoid of substance. "Man + woman = child" is definitely what this country was founded upon. Not the principles of classical liberalism, which have absolutely nothing to do with the Christian reproductive view. 

 

What does "don't have a good feeling about it" mean? Just because the idea of being sexually involved with another man doesn't appeal to you doesn't make it wrong for everyone. I don't like metal music. That doesn't mean I don't think it is wrong for people to listen to it.

Surely you didn't expect everyone on this forum to either ignore the subject or agree with you. It should be expected that if you post something debatable, the debate will likely be had,

 

"Traditional American values" is such a politician answer. Absolutely devoid of substance. "Man + woman = child" is definitely what this country was founded upon. Not the principles of classical liberalism, which have absolutely nothing to do with the Christian reproductive view. 

 

What does "don't have a good feeling about it" mean? Just because the idea of being sexually involved with another man doesn't appeal to you doesn't make it wrong for everyone. I don't like metal music. That doesn't mean I don't think it is wrong for people to listen to it.

As we continue to debate, my motivation for remaining continues to die out. I am going to withdraw from this debate, not because I can't come up with an argument, but because we aren't going to solve anything by continuing. As I've already stated, you aren't going to change my opinion. Hopefully things go well for homosexuals in the future of this country. Make of that what you please, it's the internet and I don't give a flying fuck either way. Good day. :)

Not understanding would be considered ignorance. Before I argue with anyone about anything, I make for certain that I understand their argument and perspective, even if I disagree with it. Rejecting an opposing argument because of self ignorance of their argument is invalid in my eyes. It's like if I were to say I oppose the Democratic party, simply because I don't know anything about it and I don't quite understand their ideology.

 

With that being said, try to comprehend the perspective of those who oppose homosexuality before rejecting it. I fully understand why someone would support homosexuality, though I disagree with it. It isn't very difficult to understand, it's simply what we believe in. Religion, morals, values, whatever it may be. You don't need to form a testimony to create an opinion.

You can't really support, oppose, reject, or disagree with homosexuality. Its not a choice or a belief, its something people are born being. I mean you can disagree with that all you'd like, but its still true. 

 

So I think you (and a lot of people understandably) aren't comfortable with the idea of someone being homosexual. That's just something that our society is evolving past.

You can't really support, oppose, reject, or disagree with homosexuality. Its not a choice or a belief, its something people are born being. I mean you can disagree with that all you'd like, but its still true. 

 

So I think you (and a lot of people understandably) aren't comfortable with the idea of someone being homosexual. That's just something that our society is evolving past.

What of those who are born straight, and gradually become gay?

I definitely believe people can be born with the predisposition that makes them gay,As soon as my little cousin started talking and able to form proper sentences me and my brother were just like "Do you think he sounds like he is a bit feminine".And sure enough a year or 2 ago he came out.And he is one of those homosexual people you can talk to for 15 min or so and you can just tell he is gay.But that is his life choice and i support him on it.

You can't really support, oppose, reject, or disagree with homosexuality. Its not a choice or a belief, its something people are born being. I mean you can disagree with that all you'd like, but its still true. 

 

So I think you (and a lot of people understandably) aren't comfortable with the idea of someone being homosexual. That's just something that our society is evolving past.

 

 

What of those who are born straight, and gradually become gay?

 

 

I definitely believe people can be born with the predisposition that makes them gay,As soon as my little cousin started talking and able to form proper sentences me and my brother were just like "Do you think he sounds like he is a bit feminine".And sure enough a year or 2 ago he came out.And he is one of those homosexual people you can talk to for 15 min or so and you can just tell he is gay.But that is his life choice and i support him on it.

 

I don't really think the "born vs. choice" thing even matters. I think it is likely that people, like element2586 said, are born with certain predispositions. I think there is an issue with the idea that people are one specific sexuality or another. While the labels of hetero and homosexual are convenient, I think something like the Kinsey Scale is a more accurate reflection of human sexuality. Like I said in an earlier post, sexuality isn't binary. You are not option A or option B. You are whatever it is that you are. 

Edited January 14, 201511 yr by SIR_Sergeant

What of those who are born straight, and gradually become gay?

You can't become gay, its something that some people may realize and accept about themselves over time.

You can't become gay, its something that some people may realize and accept about themselves over time.

You have a very interesting view on the matter, one I've never seen before. What exactly do you mean by this?

You have a very interesting view on the matter, one I've never seen before. What exactly do you mean by this?

Wait....really? This is pretty much common knowledge. I'm not criticizing you for not knowing it, since it sounds like you might have been mislead at some point, which is an unfortunate part of our country haha.

 

Homosexuality exists in the animal kingdom, which humans are a part of. We are supposed to be heterosexual for reproductive purposes, but homosexuality is something that some are born with. 

 

If you're not convinced that its a choice, let me ask you this: do you remember choosing to be straight?

If you're not convinced that its a choice, let me ask you this: do you remember choosing to be straight?

 

I can totally imagine a huge black room with one guy or girl sitting on a chair, enlightened by a single light, with two buttons in front of them, one being "I love tits" and the other "I love shlongs". Would be hilarious.

That's a decision for individual churches. It wouldn't matter anyway, as a church ceremony isn't a legal binding action.

And to points others have made, I don't exacly understand being "against homosexuality." People are homosexual in the same way you're heterosexual, or any other sexual identification. It's like saying you disagree with biology.

What the churches wan't has nothing to do with whats written in the bible. Like we have officers that defend the law written. Its not about what officer want to do but rather what they have to do. Churches may want to allow them to marry on a personal note however, they must defend whats written or that makes them hypocrites.  Biology and homosexuality don't go in the same sentence. Biology is natural homosexuality is a personal preferences that must be respected however is not natural. If homosexuals couples can't naturally reproduce, what that does this tell you? That nature prohibits it.  

as far as being born gay is concerned, name one baby that came out of the womb and made that announcement?  I think none. Yeah not buying this theory at all.

What the churches wan't has nothing to do with whats written in the bible. Like we have officers that defend the law written. Its not about what officer want to do but rather what they have to do. Churches may want to allow them to marry on a personal note however, they must defend whats written or that makes them hypocrites.  Biology and homosexuality don't go in the same sentence. Biology is natural homosexuality is a personal preferences that must be respected however is not natural. If homosexuals couples can't naturally reproduce, what that does this tell you? That nature prohibits it.  

as far as being born gay is concerned, name one baby that came out of the womb and made that announcement?  I think none. Yeah not buying this theory at all.

Did you read any of the thread? I think it has been beaten to death this "natural vs. unnatural" nonsense. Oral sex doesn't produce a child. Is that also "unnatural?" I'm also tired of this "homosexuals can't reproduce so it isn't natural" bullshit. Some people are infertile. If they have sex, that must also be unnatural then as no child can be produced. 

 

How many infants do you know that come out of the womb and tell the world their sexual preferences and desires? A lot of people know they're gay in the same way I'm sure you know you're straight. You didn't make a conscious decision to one day like women, did you? 

Edited January 14, 201511 yr by SIR_Sergeant