The whole situation in Israel is a ****storm. It's really not clear cut for who's in the right or in the wrong at all times. I will say however, that Israel's borders have almost exclusively been gained by counterattacks in wars involving countries that have completely surrounded them and attacked them unprovoked. Even moreso, most of the land that the Israelis have gained have continuously been offered back to the Palestinians and the other countries that have been at war with them, and the only one who's accepted the offering for their land as long as they accept peace has been Egypt. Furthermore, Israelis do not purposely try to kill Palestinian civilians, they avoid it as much as possible. The problem lies in the tactics the Palestinians use, in which they hide weapons, ammo, and fighters (usually actively in combat) in heavily populated civilian buildings and areas, while at the same time blocking the civilians from leaving those areas (even though Israel warns them to leave the areas with pamphlets, radio, and even recently starting to call them on their cell phones even up to a week in advance before anything happens). That's on top of the terror attacks that occur against civilians in Israel on a daily basis.

 

That's the story that never gets told, and that's why I can never support the Palestinians no matter what is happening to them. In what world would violence get them anywhere, especially even moreso against innocent civilians?

On 20-1-2015 at 11:49 AM, Hystery said:

 

The UN threw you into this so you could have a land to live in, a priviliege that is given to almost no one, and you are going to complain -again-? Maybe you would have prefered to have nothing at all and to keep wandering everywhere until a second holocaust occured? You say you've seen what Palestine does, well I've seen what Israel does. You can't even DARE say it's a fight to survive on the Israeli side. You have modern life. Electricity, warm water, internet. While in Palestine it's a REAL WARZONE. You destroy everything on their side, you kill them by hundreds. Go live on the Palestinian side, in Gaza, and then, only then you'll be able to say that it's a fight to survive. That's what actually makes me sick, Israel thinks they are saints, that they are just defending themselves when they kept persecuting a whole people for more than sixty freaking years. But you don't defend yourself, you are just doing a genocide while your own people was the victim of a genocide 70 years ago. It's highly hypocritical and gives me nausea. You literally BUILT A WALL around Palestinian "lands" (speaking of lands, I'd like to notify than Israel -obviously- took the most luxurious lands, leaving the desertic areas to Palestinian), making real life modern ghettos, and you expect they will let you push their borders always more and more until you eventually kick them out like you always dreamed to do? Well guess what, they won't let you do so and will fight back, hence the mortars and hostilities. Stop expanding with your settlements, and then, there will be peace.

 

Here's the exact definition of what is happening:

 

Its an action reaction situation. They cant do nothing, cause that just angers the people and makes the attackers feel stronger. Its the same thing the French do in Syria. Bomb the shit out of it, till you kill everyone, civillians and terrorists.. Its not a fight to survive its a fight to keep up the countries reputation.

its good to see this has been a very decent conversation. i definitely agree with the majority about everybody killing everyone. i still have issues with the illegal settlements and Netanyahu. I honestly believe he thinks the longer he holds Palestine back, the longer he will remain in power. i don't know why..but that is the feeling i get. he has built himself up to be so anti-Palestine and rallied those like minded people behind him, that he feels if he backtracks, he will be ridiculed or even ousted..or assassinated even. so i can't see ANYTHING happening to make the situation better while he is in office. there will come a time when Palestine comes into the world and when it does, Israel will find that Palestine has more friends than it does.

 

The UN statistics stand like this: Of the 193 countries, Israel is recognized by 157 and Palestine is recognized by 136. Those numbers are staggering and should scare Israel to death that a country it says "doesn't exist" is not only recognized by almost as many countries as it is, but that 31 of those countries will never recognize Israel (the Arab League has stated that if Israel signs a treaty with Palestine and gives them recognition, they would in turn recognize Israel). So it is ENTIRELY possible that Palestine could surpass full recognition at the UN before Israel. and THAT is what scares Israel, because no matter what it does, it is frozen at 157 permanently..unless the Arab League decides to recognize them, while Palestine could cruise right on to 193.

On 12/10/2016 at 2:56 PM, jg45042 said:

its good to see this has been a very decent conversation. i definitely agree with the majority about everybody killing everyone. i still have issues with the illegal settlements and Netanyahu. I honestly believe he thinks the longer he holds Palestine back, the longer he will remain in power. i don't know why..but that is the feeling i get. he has built himself up to be so anti-Palestine and rallied those like minded people behind him, that he feels if he backtracks, he will be ridiculed or even ousted..or assassinated even. so i can't see ANYTHING happening to make the situation better while he is in office. there will come a time when Palestine comes into the world and when it does, Israel will find that Palestine has more friends than it does.

 

The UN statistics stand like this: Of the 193 countries, Israel is recognized by 157 and Palestine is recognized by 136. Those numbers are staggering and should scare Israel to death that a country it says "doesn't exist" is not only recognized by almost as many countries as it is, but that 31 of those countries will never recognize Israel (the Arab League has stated that if Israel signs a treaty with Palestine and gives them recognition, they would in turn recognize Israel). So it is ENTIRELY possible that Palestine could surpass full recognition at the UN before Israel. and THAT is what scares Israel, because no matter what it does, it is frozen at 157 permanently..unless the Arab League decides to recognize them, while Palestine could cruise right on to 193.

Interesting, brings up things I've never even heard before surprisingly. 

 

I will say that in terms of recognition, I could've sworn they've done that with one of their previous treaties, I thought it was the one they signed in the early 2000's. However, something that should be noted is that Palestine hasn't ever actually been a state until recently (they were for like 2 years until their recently found independence). For example, the place that they now hold, the Gaza Strip, was actually part of and occupied by Egypt starting in 1949 until 1967 when Israel started occupying it until 1993. The West Bank on the other hand, is completely Israels. They annexed it, and claims that it's Palestine's land don't make sense because it was part of Jordan (who no longer claims the land), and was also gained after Israel's military conflict with Jordan. The situation over annexation is no different than the Soviet's control over the Baltics after WWII, but that wasn't considered conquest. 

On 1/19/2015 at 6:12 PM, jg45042 said:

okay so i've been seething about this for a million years and i have noone to discuss politics with SOO...

 

am i the only one who is pulling for Palestine? I read the news and i just feel like hardly anyone knows anything about the palestines or the situation they are in. in my head i cant wrap my brain around why everyone is backing Israel so hard. what we know is that crazy palestinians have launched thousands of mortars into Israel and we know that Israel takes up full military incursions soon after. From my understanding, in all of the mortars launched hardly anyone is ever killed and hardly any property is ever hit. The vast majority have always fallen on unused land and some dont even detonate.

 

keeping that in mind, Israel launches offensives that literally kill thousands of people. Is that kind of response acceptable considering the actual damage from these mortars is relatively minor. Gaza has been destroyed twice in recent times. Billions upon billions of dollars..that the international community ends up bearing the responsbility of paying. So what in the hell is so dam important about Israel? They annexxed land from three countries and noone said a dam thing..Crimea was annexxed by Russia without a shot fired and they are on the verge of financial collapse..i am so sick of israel...or maybe im just sick of Netanyahu :/ anyone?

Would you like to know WHY thousands of people died (which was actually on both sides)? Because Hamas, the main governing body of Gaza (think about that for a second- the government of this place is run by  a terrorist group) uses civilians as human shields for one, and on many accounts, they launch the mortars, rockets and such from school buildings and family homes, thus damning the family. even when Israel sends in leaflets and text messages telling the people in that area to vacate because they will be destroying that area, the terrorists force the civilians to stay so as to have more of a body count to tack onto Israel, when in reality this 'body count' is really just their doing. I could go on for a lot longer, but I think you get the idea.

On 1/19/2015 at 6:12 PM, jg45042 said:

 

 

4 hours ago, MrMoriyal said:

Would you like to know WHY thousands of people died (which was actually on both sides)? Because Hamas, the main governing body of Gaza (think about that for a second- the government of this place is run by  a terrorist group) uses civilians as human shields for one, and on many accounts, they launch the mortars, rockets and such from school buildings and family homes, thus damning the family. even when Israel sends in leaflets and text messages telling the people in that area to vacate because they will be destroying that area, the terrorists force the civilians to stay so as to have more of a body count to tack onto Israel, when in reality this 'body count' is really just their doing. I could go on for a lot longer, but I think you get the idea.

 

I understand, but how long do you think a group of people should live under occupation...There comes a time when push comes to shove and that is where the Palestinians are. Israel has shaped the way Palestines have evolved to hate them. After 40 years I would throw rockets too

22 hours ago, jg45042 said:

I understand, but how long do you think a group of people should live under occupation...There comes a time when push comes to shove and that is where the Palestinians are. Israel has shaped the way Palestines have evolved to hate them. After 40 years I would throw rockets too

Exactly my thoughts. Israel just pushed Palestine to be more and more offensive and hateful towards them by pushing their settlements always further and further against all international guidelines, UN included.

2 hours ago, Hystery said:

Exactly my thoughts. Israel just pushed Palestine to be more and more offensive and hateful towards them by pushing their settlements always further and further against all international guidelines, UN included.

Wait, wait, wait; you said that they were pushing their settlements further and further. This is true, and yes you are correct that it is (as far as I am aware of) against international guidelines, but this was never Palestine's claim. The current disputed land you are talking about was part of Jordan until 1967, and they no longer claim it. It is no more valid for Israel to claim it (as they gained it through war with Jordan), than for Palestine to claim it (they did nothing, they just claimed it). 

 

Why is it lawful for Palestine to claim another country's land, but under the same circumstances (which are even more justifiable than the other states claim) it is unlawful for Israel to claim it? Also, just note something, the very plan people bring up by the UN for the boundaries was rejected by the Palestinians prior to attacking the Israelis. Either way, the plan was never actually enacted, therefore it's still invalid to claim either way. That's why Resolution 32/20 of the UN doesn't make sense, just because a resolution was adopted, doesn't mean it's in effect until enacted (which it never was by the UN). 

 

Also, why aren't we talking about the fact that Palestine themselves disregarded the resolution (that never was enacted) by attempting to annex Israel? In fact, they were the proto Israeli's in that case, if you go by your claims.