Firstly i couldn't find a search button so if this is already suggested please just redirect me:).

 

When i play GTAIV i use a controller because thats what i find comfortable and fun. But i have no problem pressing some keys when nothing important is happening such as Y/N for accepting callouts.

The problem i face is that there are so many commands, combinations and while the QAM is wonderful, it doesn't really fit on a controller because it interferes with something.

What is easy to use however is the mobile phone. I've read and tried the police helper mod, but for me tat didn't really cut it as it has it's own set of commands. 

What i think would be an amazing edition for LCPDFR is a modular phone app specifically for this mod. On it through catagories you would have the necessary commands for being on the go such as requesting backup, roadblocks. With the most important ones as the first options for quick access like Join pursuit, accept/deny callouts etc. Not only would this make things easier for everyone really (It is optional afterall) but it would hold options for commands that aren't regularly used. In other words most actions you could take would be in an easy to access and easy to find area.

This alone would make me very happy, as it gives me the commands at my fingertips with a controller and it means i don't need to remember all the different commands as there are quite a lot.

 

The above would be great as a standalone if it could be done, but if this next could be implemented i think it could be a good idea for modders alike. If the phone mod was modular. By this i mean for additional mods, say the towing one, to be easily implemented without needing to alter the original phone mod. Whether it is possible or not i don't know, but what it could mean is that with the initial LCPDFR commands additional options become available by adding them on. This would allow modders of existing and new mods related to features to have their files added as normal but give an option to link the commands to the phone app. If the user could customise the menu's too in a config file that would help too i think. Each sub menu if there is a new mod, they could add a line which adds a new menu option.

 

[servies]

fire service

Ambulance

(new)tow Service -AKA the name of the new mod-

 

Each group would have it's own menu like the original phone in GTA4

 

The layout could be something like this.

 

Join Pursuit

Accept Callout

Deny Callout

Request--- Backup- roadblock etc 

Servies--- fire- ambulance- (new mod)Towing etc

 

I could explain in further detail if needed, this was just something i felt would be a really good addition to this mod for ease of access and additional modding opportunity.

 

Obviously i have no idea how mods are made, but i know the sort of logic behind it, so from my opinion it doesn't sound impossible :P

I'm not sure it's possible to edit the in-game phone, since GTA IV's release I've only seen theme changes which involves a simple texture change.

I don't think there is A way.. I have tried in the past all it did was brake my game.

Not necessarily to edit the in game phone, perhaps a new one like the one in police helper. But have it laid out similar to the original with it's menu's and sub menu's. The difference from PH in that it has all the LCPDFR commands and possibly the modular idea in my second point. 

I aint no coder but it seems like work thats not really necessary. Just use your keyboard or get a wireless one.

This isn't just for controller users. Wouldn't it be nice to have all your commands and options in a little UI instead of having to remember Alt+P alt+c Ctrl+a etc? 

The issue is that manipulating UIs is slow. It's way faster to use keyboard commands. For plenty of options, you have the action wheel, which is just such an AI, and which is explicitly designed for controller use (the idea of "go to this spot on a circle" is much more natural for an analog stick than for a mouse). What, exactly, did it interfere with?

With the QAM and controllers? Well having it on left thumb (Horn) (Siren) messed about with turning the siren off/on and blaring the horn. Changing it to the shoulder buttons messes with shooting or handbrake. Right thumbstick is rear view. Finally any of the other buttons XYAB means you can't use the right stick to actually select the options easily. As far as i know you can't remap GTA4's initial controls otherwise there would be no issue. 

 

When you say manipulating UI's is slow did you mean from a player point, or for a coding point?

With the QAM and controllers? Well having it on left thumb (Horn) (Siren) messed about with turning the siren off/on and blaring the horn. Changing it to the shoulder buttons messes with shooting or handbrake. Right thumbstick is rear view. Finally any of the other buttons XYAB means you can't use the right stick to actually select the options easily. As far as i know you can't remap GTA4's initial controls otherwise there would be no issue. 

 

When you say manipulating UI's is slow did you mean from a player point, or for a coding point?

When he says slow, I think he means that pausing the game, like the Police Helper does, and having to scroll thru menus and submenus of things to find one option, is slowing down and breaking the flow of the game. Whereas just pressing a quick key combination keep the game flowing and not breaking the action.

When i say similar to Police Helper i mean more the idea behind it rather than it's implementation and instead have it work more like GTA's phone. No pausing involved. Push a button and phone pops up, dpad keys then control the menu (Or arrow keys for keyboard). This way you still have all your buttons for shooting, steering, driving, camera etc and you can quickly get through the menu's at your own pace. I was thinking more of a replica of GTA's phone but just for LCPDFR.

 

If it was modular (This just being a related but seperate idea)  you could add options for any additional mods you get such as the towing service, METT, or the Automatic Plate Reader (Which on a side note i think would be amazing if it was officially implemented into LCPDFR). But this modular thing may well be a lot harder to do.

It's slow from the player perspective. If the issue is that you can't find a good button for the *one* task of "activate QAM", what makes you think it'd be any easier to map the several buttons you need to manipulate a UI? Furthermore, as I understand it, the PH UI is not good for controller use. Something that relies on clicking a button among a bunch of buttons arrayed in a grid is way, way easier for a mouse than a controller.

The issue with not pausing or slowing the game is that things happen in between when you trigger the menu and when you get to the option you want. If you want to call commands in anything near real-time, you need to either have it be just a button-press or two, or have it be selected while the game is slowed. "Quick" and "dpad navigation" don't belong in the same sentence - having to look away from the action and control the dpad is slower, much slower, than hitting buttons from memory while still looking at the action.

Furthermore, again: If you can't find a button to trigger the QAM, why would it be easier to find one to trigger a phone?

Because QAM needs to be held down to select an option. And none of the controller buttons really accepts it. The PH grid way is awkward tbh for controller and keyboard when i compare it with the original GTA phone.

 

When your playing normally and want to go bowling with someone, do you stop at the side of the road to make the call through all the menus?. Having every button you need a thumb press away is very quick and easy. 

Like the GTa phone when you push the button to activate it, it stays up until you make an action or turn it off again. this allows you to start choosing options,  make a turn etc then carry on. If the menu's on the phone app are structured well it could be as quick as this. DpadLeft (open phone) - DpadDownx2 - A - DpadDown - A -Call backup. I've not got the instructions to hand but i would say having almost every LCPDFR command 'categorised' for quick access would make thigns easier than remembering all of them. there are a lot of buttons and combinations.

 

Unlike QAM the phone app could be activated with one button and would stay up until you turn it off. Freeing the users main controls up to continue driving etc. The only thing i would say this phone app is no good for is a foot chase, however you could easily map one necessary command which might only be calling backup or drawing the taser. 

If you want backup, it's generally something you want quickly. You propose 6 button-presses, which are done while looking at a menu (and NOT at whatever's happening on screen). That's slow. In car chases, you can miss a turn looking away; it is very much not a good idea to take that amount of time and attention to do something like call for backup, which you generally want to do *quickly*. Drawing the taser needs to be fast, about as fast as drawing any other weapon. Calling backup should be fast. Calling NOOSE should be fast. Partner commands should be fast. You see the issue? There's way too much stuff that should be fast to put it in a menu without pausing while you navigate. As long as you're doing that, QAM is a pretty natural way to do so - slow down the game while selecting. Anything that involves browsing a menu while the game runs at full speed is just too slow to be very useful.

I'm still not sure why pressing right stick is a bad mapping; it seems perfect. Just re-map "look back". In LCPDFR, there generally aren't so many uses for looking back. Would your problems be solved if QAM trigger was instead a toggle?

I don't think you can remap GTA's controls. Otherwise this never would have been a problem.

You say about looking away but the phone is still on the screen. You can more or less look at both because all you need to think about is move the menu up and down. Again i say, maybe it's just me, but i never have an issue when i use GTA's phone while driving about. It's not that difficult to glance to a spot on the screen for half a second.

Anything thats not on the QAM provided it was mapped somehow, i'd need to A remember the combination and B input the combination which may well need two hands. If i was using the keyboard to drive it may be a bit easier yes but i would still have to look down at my keyboard, away from the screen to find the actual buttons so i don't end up inputting the wrong keys. The orginal GTA phone was so easy to use.

 

Another good aspect of this whole idea was having all the commands in a single place. When i look at the manual theres about 4 pages of commands and it's quite overwhelming. Especially situational ones. I can't name one off my head but theres sure to be a rare to use command which people will have to alt tab out, open the manual and find it. 'Oh it was Alt+F to place the flares' as an example. this phone app is only really meant to be used in the car, and on foot while not in 'combat'. Don't get the wrong idea that i was planning on running the entirety of LCPDFR from the phone. Here's an example of it's use with mapping of keys too.

 

Call for stolen car - i can press y/n on keyboard                                                                       

                               or open phone and choose accept/deny option which are both near the top.

 

During chase i need backup - While easily driving behind i can quickly navigate to Request category then choose backup. Literally within 3 seconds and whole time i have full car control without lookign away form the screen.

 

Runs on foot - i get out and double press controller button to equip taser. 

 

I lose sight - i can stop running for about 3 seconds while i open phone, navigate to request and choose helicopter

 

Police catch thief - i run up to, use arrest button on controller

 

Call transport - i open phone, navigate for 3 seconds to Service and choose Transport.

 

Call towing - Same as above

 

Finally call in the success - open phone, navigate to bottom and call in. 

 

The way i see it in a car you can have full control while you navigate. Regardless of the users speed, i've yet to see an occasion during a pursuit that meant if i didn't call the support in within 2 seconds the entire chase is over. 

Using a correct (possibly customisable) set of phone choices and LCPDFR mappings (such as left shoulder being arrest) You can have smooth and efficient control over everything you would need.

 

 

Here's the thing about vision: "Looking at the screen" is way too broad. You cannot focus on the whole screen at once; your central vision area is quite narrow. When the corner of the screen is in focus, the center is not. You are looking away, relying on peripheral vision. Meanwhile, using your keyboard, for most people, does not involve looking at it (if it does, you probably need to learn to touch-type).

The other thing is we don't *have* many commands like "place flare". We have commands that are designed to be used on-the-fly, not generally while sitting in a car or driving normally. In chases, at least in my experience, suspects tend to make lots of turns, which means you have to watch the chase and not the corner. Also, remember, if you lose sight of them, you no longer have a blip to view.

Also, remember - once you learn a key, you no longer need to interrupt play to use it. While it'd be nice to have an ingame key guide, I really don't see a menu system being very useful to control options. Keys are faster, more fluid once you learn them (and it's not hard to learn them), and don't require looking away.

While i see your point, i'd have to disagree. I could argue this point further but it's probably not going to get anywhere, and after all i am just a random user so i don't necessarily want to claim to represent any masses. It's just my opinion that for controller only users this mod is more or less too difficult to use unless like me, they sit attheir computer with the controller.. I've seen forum posts dotted about with people saying that they use controller for GTA except when running this mod. 

 

If i can't convince you fair enough, but could you tell me how difficult you think it would be to implement? I have no idea how to start with something like this, but from that i'm aware most of the hard work has been done before. Any mod with a menu, Simple Native Trainer for example has a working menu with has sub categories. All i can assume is that each option just works as a shortcut to a command so all the difficult programming has already been done as this phone app would just link to already implemented commands. 

 

And now i think about it making it modular might not be that difficult each if the user can customise it themselves. If all the commands and short cuts are in a text file would you not be able to structure your own menu order? The same way you use the ini files to change keybindings. If the format is dynamic and can be changed at the users will, then any new mod that has a feature such as the plate reading one, you could add an option to the ini which links the keybind from the additional mod. If the user could rename the options say shorten Roadblock to RB, then this opens doors to let the user structure the phone app any way they would like. So basically put, your turning UI menu options into keybindings. At least thats my theory. Example

 

'Join Pursuit' = E

'Request' 

               'Backup' = Alt+E

               'Helicopter' = Alt+F

               'Roadblock'

                                  'Cars' = H

                                  'Concrete' = G

               'Resupply' = Alt+J

 

Etc i think this makes sense.

Edited January 6, 201412 yr by Fiddicult