SGT.Graison

Ill try and hop on in about 30 minutes to an hour, doing a clean install with just LCPDFR and ELS 8.

I agree with you to an extent. I commonly fear i will be shot by another citizen thinking that i am the criminal if a shootout ever happened. So in that respect i agree some people have no business near guns. Some citizens do have training like that but you are right that the common citizen has 0 training. 1 I know exactly why the police need that equipment i was just making the argument that if the citizens didn't need them, then neither would the police. I stated at the bottom that i am pro police, i intend to become a police officer myself and have taken a citizen police academy here in Vermont. Sorry for the confusion on that one. 2 I apologize if it seemed like i was accusing you of only suggesting new gun laws or not allowing law abiding citizens to have them. I was attacking the main idea of gun control in general again sorry if it felt like i threw you under the bus but it wasn't my intent. 3 i just read what you wrote and took it literally so i apologize if i took that out of context. I also agree that the cultural difference is huge, which is why the US has more violence then France as Hystery mentioned but i also feel that, that is a unfair comparison because France and the US have much different cultures. I don't think that because Switzerland is like that, that it would work in the US but my point was that guns are not the problem. As far as actual assault rifles, machine guns and anti material rifles go me personally i agree its a bit overkill but i feel it should still be there to own if you have the money and in case our country ever is invaded which is unlikely but who knows. I personally would like to own some just to collect them for historical value or to go have fun shooting at an old washing machine.

First the idea that every single person just because they have a gun will try to be a hero is silly. I carry my glock 23 with me every day and if someone came up to me and had me already at gun point there is, exactly, no point in trying to be a hero for 2 reasons: 1 you yourself could be killed before you even draw your weapon. 2 most robbers have no intent of harming anyone but the goal is to scare them into giving them what they want. In that aspect i agree with you however you have missed the point. Criminals will still have weapons even though now us citizens do not, so hypothetically speaking lets say 2-3 guys start walking down my street shooting everyone, going into their houses and shooting at the police; what you are saying is i should just hide and wait for my police to hopefully save me? When in fact it could be the police that now need help? I strongly trust in my police and i intend to become an LEO, but even the police admit they may not get to you in time. Many police agencies have been pro-gun in saying that the citizens very well should be armed in case of an intruder. Another hypothetical question lets say a young mother of 2 is alone by herself in the middle of nowhere and the police are 15 minutes away AT BEST, in the united states currently she is allowed to own a firearm and defend her children from harm. You however believe that she should hide herself and her kids in a closet or something and pray to god the police get there in time? You also overlooked that there are states that require carry permits or that wont issue them. Not ever inch of the US has gun violence. Also needless to say firearms are a huge part of our culture and history in the US. So to entirely remove that would be detrimental to everything our forefathers have bled and died for so we could be here today to enjoy the freedoms we do. And i answer you with this - The 1940s when Adolf Hitler was conquering Europe, murdering millions of people and imprisoning almost an entire culture. The idea that violence is never the answer in most cases is true until it becomes a matter of life and death..especially when its multiple lives involved. We would all love to live in a world where no one raised a gun or even a fist but the sad reality is we live far from a world anything like that and until that day comes i will not lay down and die a victim who could of stood a chance. I don't know about you but i intend to live until i die of old age or what have you and until then any person who wishes to do me harm is an obstacle of that goal and they will be overcome or i will die trying.

First i am not debating the origin of the assault rifle and what its intent was for. To be more specific by the market i mean the civilian market and the common semi-automatic rifles that are usually demonized as "assault rifles". The rifles you posted are the rifles i am exactly talking about none of those have the full capability that the original military version has (selector switches, different internals ect..); These rifles may be nearly identical in every way to the original but they are not being sold with the intention of being used to harm another human being or fight a war. Secondly the AR in AR-15 does not stand for assault rifle it stands for ArmaLite the company that first manufactured the rifle before selling it to Colt. Here is an excerpt: "AR does NOT stand for Assault Rifle, as is commonly believed. AR stands for the original company that manufactured it, ArmaLite. ArmaLite sold their rights to the AR-10 and AR-15 designs in 1959 to Colt." sources - http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=AR-15 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15 My stance remains unchanged as these weapons are not sold to civilians with the intention of being used for combat as the original was. I refuse to let emotion and fear dictate my stance on personal freedoms; furthermore In school it was a great annoyance when the entire class is penalized for the actions of a lone individual, and i believe that idea remains true for nearly anything within moral reason. Lets agree to disagree but i respect the fact you took the time to post links to explain your stance.

It may "deter" them in the same way police presence should deter a threat but time and time again have shown that when these criminals step foot out their door with a weapon, with the intent to kill they will stop at nothing to harm someone; why the ***k would they even care about a death penalty when 9/10 the shooter ends up dead in these shootouts. It may stop a few people from wanting to commence heinous acts but it will never be an endgame solution and all you have accomplished is hurt your law abiding citizens in the process and make them more vulnerable. To say that "they all" (Mexican criminals, gang members, cartel members ect..) get all their weapons from the US is naive. Sure one cannot debate that weapons from the US do leak into Mexico but the major cartels can get their hands on literally anything they want in fairly large shipments as we have seen they have everything from hand grenades to anti-take weapons... But to blame Mexico's gun violence entirely on the US is also naive. I agree something should be done but turning our culture upside down is not the way to do it.

I love the ignorance in your comment. Your average citizen does not own anything close to an "assault rifle." The rifles we have on the market are not "designed" to be tools of war. You could make the same argument for police officers, why the fuck do they need AR-15s, rifle plates, shotguns, armored vehicles ect.. After all we're not in the middle east right? There are corrupted people that will do anything it takes to hurt someone if they determined enough, look what happened in Canada last week; To the contrary there are also Samaritans who have helped officers pinned down by shooters or who have be able to stop someone from doing more harm. Look at nations like Switzerland who have a .308 caliber battle rifle in damn near every home and you don't hear about any mass shootings over there. Personally the condom effect has and always will be the most logical approach to self defense and firearms in general. "I would rather have one and not need one, than to need one and not have one." As far as hunting goes most states (likely all) have serious regulations like my state Vermont you are not allowed to carry more than 6 rounds of ammunition in your semi-automatic rifle while hunting or face fines or possible confiscation of your equipment. For the record i am not against the police on having the tools they do as i intend to be an LEO by late 2016.

I live in southern Vermont, not a lot of violent crime around here but what we lack in violence we make up for in heroin. Maybe we were overtaken but the last time i looked VT was rated #1 for heroin traffic in the United States. Despite that i still feel that VT is a very safe place to live.

Vermont State Police or my local department.