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Another day in America, and A mass shooting at a Santa Fe High school has occured in Texas, 50 miles from Houston. 8 students killed. The suspect "wearing a trenchcoat" opened fire with a sawn off shotgun at students in art class. Explosive devices also found. Seems like another shooter obsessed with Columbine. 

 

Mod edit to include link to the article: http://abc13.com/reports-of-shots-fired-at-santa-fe-high-school-/3490869/

 

 

Edited by Giordano
Please add links to the article in the future.

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Remember when people said schools were safe, and you should feel safe?  Remember when we had drills for these types of incidents but always giggled and played them off jokingly because it never happened?  I do, and it feels like it was so long ago.  I really feel for these kids and the staff who now are forced to always think the worst and that their life may be over whenever something like this happen.

 

These are kids, their job is to go to school, be idiots, and get in INNOCENT trouble.  They should not have to deal with this shit, especially not seeing a bleeding or deceased classmate.

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Just now, Giordano said:

Remember when people said schools were safe, and you should feel safe?  Remember when we had drills for these types of incidents but always giggled and played them off jokingly because it never happened?  I do, and it feels like it was so long ago.  I really feel for these kids and the staff who now are forced to always think the worst and that their life may be over whenever something like this happen.

 

These are kids, their job is to go to school, be idiots, and get in INNOCENT trouble.  They should not have to deal with this shit, especially not seeing a bleeding or deceased classmate.

 

I believe President Trump will try and sort the issue, but with the NRA, I'm not sure. I don't think guns are soley to blame. This was a sawn off shotgun, not a AR-15 with a bump stock.  A very simple firearm that is easy to get even in my country. Mental health care needs to be improved and they should have placed this person on a watchlist. Classmates say he "always wore trenchcoats". That on its own should ring alarm bells after columbine. Another needless massacre that could have easily been prevented.

4 minutes ago, Giordano said:

Remember when people said schools were safe, and you should feel safe?  Remember when we had drills for these types of incidents but always giggled and played them off jokingly because it never happened?  I do, and it feels like it was so long ago.  I really feel for these kids and the staff who now are forced to always think the worst and that their life may be over whenever something like this happen.

 

These are kids, their job is to go to school, be idiots, and get in INNOCENT trouble.  They should not have to deal with this shit, especially not seeing a bleeding or deceased classmate.

Yep here we go https://heavy.com/news/2018/05/dimitrios-pagourtzis/

 

If foregin terrorists committed these attacks as often as these events take place, the US would be on lockdown. 

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On 5/18/2018 at 12:32 PM, qwertyK said:

 

I believe President Trump will try and sort the issue, but with the NRA, I'm not sure. I don't think guns are soley to blame. This was a sawn off shotgun, not a AR-15 with a bump stock.  A very simple firearm that is easy to get even in my country. Mental health care needs to be improved and they should have placed this person on a watchlist. Classmates say he "always wore trenchcoats". That on its own should ring alarm bells after columbine. Another needless massacre that could have easily been prevented.

 

Mental health will never be properly addressed, 'cause no one gives a shit about the mentality ill. The government doesn't care, so why should the people?

 

Quote

"always wore trenchcoats".  That on its own should ring alarm bells after columbine.

 

No, no it shouldn't ring alarm bells.  It's a coat that is meant to be worn.  If he had insisted on wearing full face masks/ski masks every day, that might be suspicious, but a coat?  What next, is anyone wearing a hoody with a hood up the next shooter as well?  Saying someone's clothes are a bad thing or an indication of ill intent is laughable.

 

Quote

Another needless massacre that could have easily been prevented.

 

That's the thing, most bad things in life can be prevented, yet no one tries to.  Then again, could this really of been prevented?  No.  If someone wants to do something like this, they will find a way.  No amount of restrictions/laws can stop someone who is on a mission.

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The shooter looks like a Nicholas Cruz 2.0. Why didn't someone report him? Look at the metro on what he posted. He wore Nazi memrobilla too,

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My reaction when I heard about it: how surprising. Sad that it's happening so often I become jaded about it.

 

Also, shooter has a greek name. Inb4 Trump decides to ban all greeks from entering the country, because it's obviously the issue :^)

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Definitely a tragedy. Maybe one day America will wake up and address the problems that our young adults are facing. Everyone always says, "Oh, they're just kids. They don't have any real struggles or issues going on." That's clearly not the case, and our young people are put into terrible circumstances in schools, then everyone's surprised when someone takes their own life or the life of someone else. 

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48 minutes ago, Giordano said:

Remember when people said schools were safe, and you should feel safe?  Remember when we had drills for these types of incidents but always giggled and played them off jokingly because it never happened?  I do, and it feels like it was so long ago.  I really feel for these kids and the staff who now are forced to always think the worst and that their life may be over whenever something like this happen.

 

These are kids, their job is to go to school, be idiots, and get in INNOCENT trouble.  They should not have to deal with this shit, especially not seeing a bleeding or deceased classmate.

Exactly! I only finished University 2 years ago and I've never been worried but my cousin lives in FL and he says he always gets worried that someone will come into his school and shoot it up. It just isn't right for kids to think. Mental health should be evaluated more and, not saying this time, gun laws should be reevaluated too. It's horrible how so many innocent adults and children are being slaughtered.

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There are real solutions to be fair, on many sides, the issue is the lack of conviction from politics to actually do something about it. To have guts for once in their lives and justify their  indecent salary by doing something useful for society, the society that elected them and put them in their office.

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9 hours ago, TheDivineHustle said:

Definitely a tragedy. Maybe one day America will wake up and address the problems that our young adults are facing. Everyone always says, "Oh, they're just kids. They don't have any real struggles or issues going on." That's clearly not the case, and our young people are put into terrible circumstances in schools, then everyone's surprised when someone takes their own life or the life of someone else. 

 

I think the reason adults use that excuse is because they don't want to admit that these are issues for kids.  They'd rather be blissfully unaware.

 

5 hours ago, Hystery said:

There are real solutions to be fair, on many sides, the issue is the lack of conviction from politics to actually do something about it. To have guts for once in their lives and justify their  indecent salary by doing something useful for society, the society that elected them and put them in their office.

 

I don't think there's much that can be done politically to prevent this.  If it's not with guns, it's with knives.  If not with knives, cars.  So on and so forth.  It really comes back to mental health, and bullying.

 

I haven't heard any updates or a motive, but bullying can be a pretty big reason as to why someone does something like this.  When I was younger and was bullied in school, there were a lot of times I wished one of my bullies would die, or that I could fight back.  Granted, I didn't think about killing him, but for some the bullying is just that bad.

 

Even back when I was in school, bullying was not properly handled.  You could tell the teachers, but generally all they did was slap the kid on the wrist and let him off with a verbal warning.  Very rarely was anything actually done.  To their credit, some schools are starting to crack down on it and are trying to help the victims of bullying, but it's still a very small percentage of schools.

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11 hours ago, Giordano said:

I don't think there's much that can be done politically to prevent this.  If it's not with guns, it's with knives.  If not with knives, cars.  So on and so forth.  It really comes back to mental health, and bullying.

 

That was my point. There are many real solutions. Improving mental health care and actively fighting bullying in school is one of them. Yet, do you see lawmakers moving their asses to do something about it? Of course not, they're glued to their seat. They'll say "Oh it's tragic", "Oh it shouldn't happen anymore", but in the mean time, what do they do to actually make it not happen anymore? Nothing. Because they're more focused on getting reelected rather than actually solving issues.

 

That's why I wish all lawmakers and presidents could go for ONE mandate max, no reelection possible. That way, when they're elected, you know they'd do something because it has to be done, rather than focusing on the polls and how much they're liked to stay in their office longer.

Edited by Hystery

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  This was horrid just like all of the other's but, I must say, you can enact all of the law's that you want, that you "THINK" make sence, and that you "THINK" will work, but the truth is that there is almost nothing that will stop evil people from doing evil thing's.

 

  On the mental health issue, it is not that people and Government (or should I say, our neighbors that we give power) don't care about the mental health issue, it is that no one knows what to do.  You are asking people in government that have absolutely NO IDEA what mental health is, to enact law's that will be subject to everyone in the U.S.  

 

And you may say, "Well Toe Bius, we have mental health professionals that know everything about mental health and they can point us and advise us in the correct direction on how to fix this."

 

  And sadly I must say that NO.  Some people may know how to classify and treat it but the people that are going to be chosen to help write the law's will only put there own interest into the bill just like everyone else does.  And you can't identify someone that one day just snaps.

 

  The only way that you can adapt and fix this is to have good security, which most school's apparently do not have, which is strange to me considering the school's that I went to growing up.  Courthouse shootings have decreased dramatically since law enforcement and metal detectors have been implemented into the courthouses.

 

  Sadly though, nothing will change and we shall continue to argue amd bicker within our societies with no truly good outcome.

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1 hour ago, ToeBius said:

And you may say, "Well Toe Bius, we have mental health professionals that know everything about mental health and they can point us and advise us in the correct direction on how to fix this."

 

 And sadly I must say that NO.  Some people may know how to classify and treat it but the people that are going to be chosen to help write the law's will only put there own interest into the bill just like everyone else does. 

 

I mean... That's exactly how every other single law is made though. They call a bunch of experts, they gather data, analytics, the experts give a report to the lawmakers that will serve as a basis for a law. Why wouldn't it be possible for mental health? It's just an issue like another. Gather a bunch of doctors, psychiatrists and the likes, ask their opinion about it, what can be done, if you want to gather some security experts to know what can be done to make schools safer, you can do that as well, and boom, use their input to make a law best fitting what regarding what was collected.

Edited by Hystery

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2 hours ago, Hystery said:

 

I mean... That's exactly how every other single law is made though. They call a bunch of experts, they gather data, analytics, the experts give a report to the lawmakers that will serve as a basis for a law. Why wouldn't it be possible for mental health? It's just an issue like another. Gather a bunch of doctors, psychiatrists and the likes, ask their opinion about it, what can be done, if you want to gather some security experts to know what can be done to make schools safer, you can do that as well, and boom, use their input to make a law best fitting what regarding what was collected.

  And what law has been created with the help of so called "EXPERT'S" that actually changed/helped everyone?  None.  All that you are asking these stupid politician's to do is create law's that will subjugate everyone and still not fix anything.  Look at the TSA, it is a cluster f*** that is broken, never worked, and is filled with criminals and corruption.  

 

  There are reasons that the U.S. is careful when we walk the line's of mental health, and just like I have mentioned in a previous post, and that is because they failed everyone in this country in the worst possible way.  

 

  The Government "CANNOT" do anything to benefit you or society and will only corrupt, and enslave you.  The best way to benefit society is to be good to other's, treat people the way you want to be treated.

 

  Here is the best way to secure these school's.

 

1) One way in and one way out.

2) "LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENT'S" at the front of the school's door's

3) Metal detectors at the front door's.

 

  That is how all of the school's that I went to were, it is cheap and efficient in a way that law's wouldn't work. The only way that you could leave the locked door's would be if there was an emergency.  This was in 2001.

 

  Mental health is a difficult subject to fix, and the expert's are not law maker's as well as the law's aren't the answer.  Unless you would like to have mandatory mental evaluations every 6 month's.   Just stand up to bullies and protect your school's in the same way that you would protect your courthouse.  

 

  It is sad when innocents are killed or maimed but thinking that a mental health law will fix anything is wrong.  Start teaching people to have chivalry and to stand up against evil.

  The only way for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing.

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13 minutes ago, ToeBius said:

 

 1) One way in and one way out.

2) "LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENT'S" at the front of the school's door's

3) Metal detectors at the front door's.

 

 

Are you serious..? So the best way to prevent kids killing each other is to turn schools into a Wolf's Lair? Well, what if the shooter will move on to other targets, schools buses, hospital, theaters, malls, cafes, hotels... Cover everything with a barbed wire, put guards (robotic guards to prevent them going insane), authorized admission and commuting between your home base and your work camp in an APC? 

 

I'm not trying to be a smartass but you can't win a war by defensive measures. 

 

School shootings are almost exclusively a US phenomena and skyrocketed in the last 30+ years. There gotta be a reason for that. 

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2 hours ago, Hastings said:

Are you serious..? So the best way to prevent kids killing each other is to turn schools into a Wolf's Lair? Well, what if the shooter will move on to other targets, schools buses, hospital, theaters, malls, cafes, hotels... Cover everything with a barbed wire, put guards (robotic guards to prevent them going insane), authorized admission and commuting between your home base and your work camp in an APC? 

 

I'm not trying to be a smartass but you can't win a war by defensive measures. 

 

School shootings are almost exclusively a US phenomena and skyrocketed in the last 30+ years. There gotta be a reason for that. 

  You are being a smartass and making these security measures sound excessive.  This is just basic security that would work.  It is not a wolf's lair, and it is preposterous for anyone to find these security measures wild.  I grew up like this and it worked.  I felt safe and knew I was safe, no one was getting into the school and going to kill anyone like that. 

 

  But hey fuck it, as you would have it, leave the doors wide open and let anyone come and go as they please.  No need to protect kid's, only judges and politicians should receive protection.     These kid's must not need protection or anything that may somehow infringe upon their rights.  The first thing that we must do is let politicians bicker and make no law that would help anyone and when that all fails maybe we can talk about putting a resource officer in with a walkie talkie and hope he can call the cops in time.  

 

  And plus, these are public school's, not private facilities like malls or cafes or hotels , ran by the government, they are supposed to teach your children while at the same time protect your children.  They have proven soo far to not be able to do either that well.  If you want the government to protect you then why do they focus on every other government facility but schools?

Edited by ToeBius
I wanted to add something

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6 hours ago, ToeBius said:

There are reasons that the U.S. is careful when we walk the line's of mental health, and just like I have mentioned in a previous post, and that is because they failed everyone in this country in the worst possible way. 

 

Last time I checked, the US government was sitting in their rocking chair and gleefully watching as those with mental health are neglected. 

 

 

The best way to benefit society is to be good to other's, treat people the way you want to be treated.

 

Obviously, yes, we should treat others kindly, and most people do.  However, this saying is as wrong as can be. You can treat 100 people kindly and still run into assholes who could care less about your feelings.  I'm not saying people should be assholes to each other, but telling someone to treat another the way they want to be treated does not yield the results you desire, and could easily be a two way street.

 

Here is the best way to secure these school's.



 

1) One way in and one way out.

 

You do realize this would only exaggerate the problem in the event of an emergency, right?  Not to mention this is a huge violation of the fire code for a building like this.  This would never work, and you know what?  You help the shooter.  He's guarding the only way in, and now has literally every single person in the building as a hostage.  They may be able to break windows, but in situations like this, most people don't even consider that.  Also consider this, say there's an active shooter.  Everyone panics and begins running for the front door, the only door.  The shooter knew this was the only door, and is standing and waiting with his gun pointed.  What you're suggesting is a human meat grinder and would only help the perpetrator and harm everyone else.

 

 

2) "LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENTS" at the front of the school's door's.

 

I don't know if school resource officers are required by law or if it's a 'at the school's request' thing, so I'm going to base this response off both scenarios.

 

1)  The officer is required at the school.  You do understand that the SRO does a lot more than just stay at their desk and wait to be called, right?  When I was in school, our SRO was actively walking around and keeping an eye on things when he had free time.  You would be severely limiting his job if you required him to stand at the front door all day long.

 

2) Officers are not required to be at the school.  This would mean one particular officer now has to spend his entire time just standing at the front of a school entrance.  Is that something you'd happily do?  Would you be happy that you went through the academy just to end up being an over priced security guard?

 

 



  That is how all of the school's that I went to were, it is cheap and efficient in a way that law's wouldn't work. The only way that you could leave the locked door's would be if there was an emergency.  This was in 2001.

 

You and I grew up in very different places then.  Our school doors were locked except for the main door, and people freely came in and out.  There was a front door attendant/check in person, but it was lax. 

 

 



  Mental health is a difficult subject to fix, and the expert's are not law maker's as well as the law's aren't the answer.  Unless you would like to have mandatory mental evaluations every 6 month's.   Just stand up to bullies and protect your school's in the same way that you would protect your courthouse. 

 

I had to re-read this a few times to see if I read it right.  Your answer to standing up to bullying is by having armed police everywhere?  'Cause that's how it is for a courthouse.    Furthermore, the whole "just stand up to bullies" garbage doesn't work at all.  More times than not, standing up to them gets you in trouble and makes them madder.  I know this from personal experience. I was bullied a lot, told the teachers, tried to get things handled the right way and whadd'ya know?  Nothing was done except a slap on the wrist.  It is always chalked up as "kids being kids", and the adults don't seem to understand how bad it is, and that it goes far beyond kids being kids.

 

Anyone who ever says "just stand up to bullies", or anything that is deemed was minimizing the bullying, the bully, or the situation, either has never been bullied before, doesn't understand bullying, or was bullied but not to the same extent as others. I mean no offense by that, but speaking from my experience, minimizing the entire thing is just slapping the victim in the face and essentially saying "Grow the fuck up, it happens to everyone".  That is wrong!

 



  It is sad when innocents are killed or maimed but thinking that a mental health law will fix anything is wrong.  Start teaching people to have chivalry and to stand up against evil.

  The only way for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing.

 

Do you know this for certain?  Have you seen the future and know a mental health law would fail?  As it is, there are thousands of those mentally ill that are homeless and on the street.  Their family doesn't give a shit, the government doesn't give a shit.  No one does, it's why they are homeless and regarded as "filth" by most.  If we could get everyone on the same page, I believe we could actually help those that are mentally ill.  I believe we could prevent a tragedy and help someone who needs it.

 

Thanks for your quote, but this isn't a movie, a show, a book, anything fake.  This is real life, and that whole "evil to prevail" thing doesn't apply here.  At all.

 

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9 hours ago, ToeBius said:

  You are being a smartass and making these security measures sound excessive.  This is just basic security that would work. 

They do sound excessive and they don't seem basic to me, but it's not the point here.

 

The point is that something is wrong with the society and instead of trying to fix the reason you're up for the increased protection. I don't really understand the reasoning here. You can toughen the security as much as you like and achieve reasonable safety inside, but what's gonna happen outside of those fortified walls apparently no longer concerns you. 

 

Maybe we have different mentalities but in my book the state shall care about its citizens wherever they are. Kids in school, people on the street, visitors in a cinema, guest at a concert, they all have a right not to be afraid. That's how I grew up, felt safe and was safe.  

 

 

 

Edited by Hastings

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11 hours ago, Giordano said:

You do realize this would only exaggerate the problem in the event of an emergency, right?  Not to mention this is a huge violation of the fire code for a building like this.  This would never work, and you know what?  You help the shooter.  He's guarding the only way in, and now has literally every single person in the building as a hostage.  They may be able to break windows, but in situations like this, most people don't even consider that.  Also consider this, say there's an active shooter.  Everyone panics and begins running for the front door, the only door.  The shooter knew this was the only door, and is standing and waiting with his gun pointed.  What you're suggesting is a human meat grinder and would only help the perpetrator and harm everyone else.

How about reading everything that I said before twisting it?  I said that there is on way in and  out "UNLESS" there is an emergency and only then the other doors will open.  And even if the shooter did come to the school then he/she would have to go to the front door and be greeted by cop's, who have gun's and training to deal with this.  You are disregarding the fact that there is a armed guard at  the school, guarding the only way in and out unless there is an emergency.  This would not be a meat grinder, this would be the way you gain access to a facility that is owned by the government.

 

11 hours ago, Giordano said:

 

I don't know if school resource officers are required by law or if it's a 'at the school's request' thing, so I'm going to base this response off both scenarios.

 

1)  The officer is required at the school.  You do understand that the SRO does a lot more than just stay at their desk and wait to be called, right?  When I was in school, our SRO was actively walking around and keeping an eye on things when he had free time.  You would be severely limiting his job if you required him to stand at the front door all day long.

 

2) Officers are not required to be at the school.  This would mean one particular officer now has to spend his entire time just standing at the front of a school entrance.  Is that something you'd happily do?  Would you be happy that you went through the academy just to end up being an over priced security guard?

  1) Guarding the front door is what a door guard does.  You can have 2 officer's at the school if you think that it would help this way one officer can walk the school grounds and the other can be at the door, this way one officer isn't stuck being bored at the door as you say.  This would not limit the officer's job as it is his job.

 

 2) I would have no issue guarding a school as it would kind of be part of my job, if I do not like my job then I can transfer or even find a new career.  Usually when a officer is put at a school, they are not the rookie that just got out of the academy and are actually someone with time under the individuals belt.

12 hours ago, Giordano said:

You and I grew up in very different places then.  Our school doors were locked except for the main door, and people freely came in and out.  There was a front door attendant/check in person, but it was lax. 

There you go, that is inadequate security measures that would do nothing to protect you.  Put a officer at the doors with metal detectors and check everyone that comes in, instead of allowing anyone that wants to come in to do so freely.

 

12 hours ago, Giordano said:

I had to re-read this a few times to see if I read it right.  Your answer to standing up to bullying is by having armed police everywhere?  'Cause that's how it is for a courthouse.    Furthermore, the whole "just stand up to bullies" garbage doesn't work at all.  More times than not, standing up to them gets you in trouble and makes them madder.  I know this from personal experience. I was bullied a lot, told the teachers, tried to get things handled the right way and whadd'ya know?  Nothing was done except a slap on the wrist.  It is always chalked up as "kids being kids", and the adults don't seem to understand how bad it is, and that it goes far beyond kids being kids.

 

Anyone who ever says "just stand up to bullies", or anything that is deemed was minimizing the bullying, the bully, or the situation, either has never been bullied before, doesn't understand bullying, or was bullied but not to the same extent as others. I mean no offense by that, but speaking from my experience, minimizing the entire thing is just slapping the victim in the face and essentially saying "Grow the fuck up, it happens to everyone".  That is wrong!

  I did not say that "the answer to bullying  is to have armed police everywhere".  I did in fact say to "stand up to bullies".  When I say stand up to them, that usually means that if someone is picking on you then you should stand up for yourself (like I did) or if you see someone getting bullied then you should stand up for them (like I did).  I was bullied to untill my mom's boyfriend told me to punch them, and that is what I did.  I layed the prick out and he never messed with me or anyone again.  Same goes with standing up to bullies for other's, I stood up for someone else and the bullying stopped.  

 

  When I say to protect your schools as you would your courthouses, I mean (and I know you know what I mean but you want to argue and make my statement sound isaine) that if you are willing to put 10 officers/deputies at a courthouse, then why is it soo taboo to put a officer or 2 at a school?  We know that people shoot up schools and yet proper security measures are to wild and out for others?  I went to the White house and it was heavily guarded, I went to military bases and they were heavily guarded, I have been to courthouses and they are heavily guarded, police stations are heavily guarded, even the library's in the ghetto have guards.  But you and everyone else find it insane to guard our schools?  The place where young minds are? WTF?

 

  I have been bullied and I stood up to the pricks, I laid them out and it stopped.  I have seen other's that couldn't stand up to bullies getting bullied and I chose not to stand idle and instead went to there aid.  So don't say that I do not know anything about bullying, your method of telling a teacher did not work and yet my method of standing up to them actually worked?  I wonder how that worked?  Maybe I put them in there place? 

 

  I NEVER said anything about telling the victim to grow up.  I only said to stand up to the bully, and if you see someone that can't stand up to them, then you should stand up for them.  Stop standing idle and letting evil prevail.  What is truly wrong is when good people do nothing and I have a major issue with that.

12 hours ago, Giordano said:

Do you know this for certain?  Have you seen the future and know a mental health law would fail?  As it is, there are thousands of those mentally ill that are homeless and on the street.  Their family doesn't give a shit, the government doesn't give a shit.  No one does, it's why they are homeless and regarded as "filth" by most.  If we could get everyone on the same page, I believe we could actually help those that are mentally ill.  I believe we could prevent a tragedy and help someone who needs it.

 

Thanks for your quote, but this isn't a movie, a show, a book, anything fake.  This is real life, and that whole "evil to prevail" thing doesn't apply here.  At all.

  Yes it would fail just like every other law on the books.  It will be corrupted, abused, and twisted to help no one because of the people that you are asking to write it.  It was the government that gave the OK with the advice of the psychiatric professionals to let these people on the street with no hope and no help.  They broke it once and they will do it again.  Peoples family's do care but they do not know how to help them and when someone doesn't want help then you can't give them help.  There are people that try to help the homeless and the mentally homeless but you can't help everyone, you can't even help the VET's that come back home from Iraq, Afghanistan,  and Africa, how do you expect to help the homeless on the street.

 

  And yes the "evil to prevail" does apply, I know this for a fact that the only way for evil to prevail, is for good men to do nothing.  I have stood up against bad people, I have put my life on the line for the lives of others with no benefit for myself,  I have faced bad people in the face and stood my ground.  The only way that these people thrive is when you stand idle and do nothing but expect for some crappy politician to write a law and hope that the cops can get there in time wile there are able bodied people around doing nothing.  That is a victimhood society and I am not apart of them.  This isn't a book or a movie or a show as you would say, there are evil people in this world and a law has never fixed anything.

7 hours ago, Hastings said:

They do sound excessive and they don't seem basic to me, but it's not the point here.

 

The point is that something is wrong with the society and instead of trying to fix the reason you're up for the increased protection. I don't really understand the reasoning here. You can toughen the security as much as you like and achieve reasonable safety inside, but what's gonna happen outside of those fortified walls apparently no longer concerns you. 

 

Maybe we have different mentalities but in my book the state shall care about its citizens wherever they are. Kids in school, people on the street, visitors in a cinema, guest at a concert, they all have a right not to be afraid. That's how I grew up, felt safe and was safe. 

  These are not excessive, have you ever been to a courthouse or police station?  If not then you may think that those places are excessive in the way that they go about with security. 

 

I agree that there is something wrong with society and it starts with humans, but instead of waiting idly for someone to make a law, we can begin by putting security into schools just like every other government facility that you go to.  It took almost a year for them to pass the affordable care act and less than a month to pass the Patriot Act, what makes you think that they are going to pass a Mental health law that works?  Those two acts do not work and they never will either. 

 

 

  I would like to know though, what does basic security mean to you? 

 

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1 hour ago, ToeBius said:

I have been bullied and I stood up to the pricks, I laid them out and it stopped.  I have seen other's that couldn't stand up to bullies getting bullied and I chose not to stand idle and instead went to there aid.  So don't say that I do not know anything about bullying, your method of telling a teacher did not work and yet my method of standing up to them actually worked?  I wonder how that worked?  Maybe I put them in there place?

 

Standing up isn't for everyone. Not everyone has the strength, both physical and psychological, to stand up against people who bully them on a daily basis. And that's without mentioning that getting violent against bullies can very quickly take a turn for the worse, either by them calling some of their friends to beat the shit out of you, or worse, like bringing weapons (chains, bottles, knives). Fighting violence with violence is never the answer. It worked for you, that's good, doesn't mean it's the right course of action.

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46 minutes ago, Hystery said:

 

Standing up isn't for everyone. Not everyone has the strength, both physical and psychological, to stand up against people who bully them on a daily basis. And that's without mentioning that getting violent against bullies can very quickly take a turn for the worse, either by them calling some of their friends to beat the shit out of you, or worse, like bringing weapons (chains, bottles, knives). Fighting violence with violence is never the answer. It worked for you, that's good, doesn't mean it's the right course of action.

  I understand that there are people that cannot stand up for themselves, that is why I mentioned me standing up for those who could not stand up for themselves.  We need to teach people to stand up for others when they cannot stand up for themselves.  We already know that telling teachers and expecting them to do something doesn't work.  And if they want to go get their friends, then people need to stand up to them too.  On the subject of bringing chains, bottles, and knives then that is where the officers at the front door of the school with metal detectors come into play.  There are answers to these problems and they are extremely simple, but it appears that they are too simple for people to understand and they feel as if you need to create a complicated system to fix it and you don't.  

 

  And the only way to fight violence is to fight it with violence.  There is no other way to stop violence, you can't hug violence, you can't kiss violence, you can only fight it.

If someone is attacking you, you cannot expect for them to stop attacking you by asking them nicely, you must fight back.  Violence is a natural part of humanity, it is built into us and we cannot suppress it, hide it, or treat it, you must learn to combat it. 

 

  For some people you just have to use brute force to get them to play right, you can't ask someone politely or use firm word's, some people only listen when you react to them with the force that they are handing out.  You will never be able to control humans unless you have a hierarchy in power, while everyone else is a chained slave.        

 

  You can only tap someone on the shoulder so many times until you must resort to other methods to get them to act right.  When they use brute force to get there way you must respond in the same way. 

 

 Just be a of good Courage.

Edited by ToeBius

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