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ActionScripter9109

Armed Suspects chase shenanigans - criminal AI too difficult

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If you've ever taken an "armed suspects" pursuit call in 0.2, you know what I'm talking about.  They drive super fast - to the point where you'll take about 8 minutes to catch up, or lose them right away if you didn't call air support.  They shoot at ridiculously long range.  Seriously, holy hell, they have pinpoint accuracy at 300 meters with their pistols while we have to drive right up on them to hit anything.  They have too much health; you can post up with an M4 and fire as they approach, but unless you sink about 3 headshots on the driver, the only result is that they murder you as they swerve around your car.  Any way you look at it, they're too difficult.  

And the AI support units suck at this job.  Somehow, with the criminals popping off homing super death rounds like they're going out of style, the NPC cops just drive doggedly behind, absorbing rounds until they tumble out of their cruisers stone dead.  No shooting back at all, no setting up roadblocks, nothing.  And most of the time they're not even a sufficient distraction - the criminals will fire past 3 cruisers to hit the player.  The only way to get some reprieve is to use "Local SWAT" and hope they send Police Transporters with their bulletproof windshields.  

And to anyone who's about to reply "lol call in NOoSE Air Support" - get lost.  That's not how you take down suspects, and it's also not a challenge.  NOoSE Air = Press Enter to win.  I want more realism, not just a way to insta-kill the bad guys.  

I know the mod team is probably aware of police tactics, and I hope you guys will adjust the scenarios and AI to be more conducive to realistic tactics.  For everyone else, if you want to see why I'm complaining, hit YouTube and search for dash cam videos where the suspects fire back at cops.  Notice that they almost never hit anything important, and that if the cops maintain a bit of distance while following, the criminals don't waste ammo trying further.  Notice that the cops sometimes fire back from their passenger windows.  Notice that spike strips are used, and that the chases almost always end when the criminals crash into traffic.  If one or more of these things were the norm in LSPDFR, it would go a long way toward making these calls fun instead of immersion-breaking and impossibly balanced.  

I'm enjoying the mod so far and looking forward to seeing what's in store.  

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The latest 2.0b update to LSPDFR includes "Some other miscellaneous fixes, such as reduced accuracy of armed suspects".

See if it's any better now? But yes, I'm sure the cop AI is a work in progress.

We all know GTA cops are reckless loonies who don't care for their own safety or civilian safety. It makes fun chances when you're the crook. But absurd chases when you're with the cops...

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While this all is true, keep in mind this is only the 0.2b version of the mod. I wonder what was LCPDFR like at this stage lol. I'm sure the team is aware. I myself try to avoid this call and use additional callouts mods which don't require Battlefield-style gameplay.

Orr... I patrol in a Transporter :D

Edited by Hastings

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-snip-

I agree with pretty much everything here. and currently the noose air support is really stupid, hopefully thats changed in future updates. right now since we're in such an early stage I just take it as a more action-y and very stable LCPDFR without the policing part. Just give it a couple dozen updates, I nearly garuntee it will have the features of LCPDFR 1.0 and more.

still very fun, just not roleplayable yet.

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I agree with pretty much everything here. and currently the noose air support is really stupid, hopefully thats changed in future updates. right now since we're in such an early stage I just take it as a more action-y and very stable LCPDFR without the policing part. Just give it a couple dozen updates, I nearly garuntee it will have the features of LCPDFR 1.0 and more.

still very fun, just not roleplayable yet.

We try to cater for more than just one type of person with LSPDFR.  With 0.2b, we added a massive amount of content in the space of a couple of weeks which was aimed primarily at people who like to take a more serious/RP style approach.  Similarly, there's a bunch of stuff for people that play LSPDFR more casually.  You might not realise it, but there are lots who enjoy driving around in police cars and blowing things up under the colour of authority.  One of the cool things about a game like GTA is the freedom that it offers to players, and we include a number of different things in LSPDFR for that reason.


"You tell me exactly what you want, and I will very carefully explain to you why it cannot be."

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We try to cater for more than just one type of person with LSPDFR.  With 0.2b, we added a massive amount of content in the space of a couple of weeks which was aimed primarily at people who like to take a more serious/RP style approach.  Similarly, there's a bunch of stuff for people that play LSPDFR more casually.  You might not realise it, but there are lots who enjoy driving around in police cars and blowing things up under the colour of authority.  One of the cool things about a game like GTA is the freedom that it offers to players, and we include a number of different things in LSPDFR for that reason.

I like to refer to the Noose air support as the "fuck it, I'm done with this" approach. :)

I love reading comments about how things are "stupid" and "unrealistic" and how they are not "roleplayable". Because let's face it these guys, they clearly drive home from their 8+ hour shift at work, pay their bills, go food shopping, pay their car insurance and then when they get home they make dinner, do the house chores and sit down on the sofa to watch tv for a few hours before going to sleep and doing it all again the next morning. And then of course at the weekend they go for a few rounds of golf, maybe walk the dog and do a bit of gardening, wash the car and play some games. All of course being done in a game where you can fit more than 20 guns, not of course forgetting a rocket launcher, RAMMED up their arsetardis, of which when they fire it every police officer in the universe warps into existence to kill them and when they die they walk out of the hospital having paid their $5,000 magical surgery bill that somehow successfully managed to remove a war's worth of bullets from their body and replace any internal organ that got turned into soup in the process.

You guys do really make me giggle :)


GTA V Mods: [WIP] More Control V [WIP] CalloutsV [WIP] LSPDFR Chroma
GTA IV Mods: [REL] Callouts+

 

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> Call in a bunch of units to follow behind them taking the shots

> Stay behind said units

> Call in NOOSE swat team

> Profit???

 

I think the NOOSE air support is a bit too much. I'd love to see something where either the regular air support or NOOSE air support shoots from the helicopters (like they will towards you if you have 3+ stars) instead rather than firing missiles in the middle of a busy intersection taking out civilians with it.

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We try to cater for more than just one type of person with LSPDFR.  With 0.2b, we added a massive amount of content in the space of a couple of weeks which was aimed primarily at people who like to take a more serious/RP style approach.  Similarly, there's a bunch of stuff for people that play LSPDFR more casually.  You might not realise it, but there are lots who enjoy driving around in police cars and blowing things up under the colour of authority.  One of the cool things about a game like GTA is the freedom that it offers to players, and we include a number of different things in LSPDFR for that reason.

This is true, and it should cater to both casual and serious players. to my understanding thats your intent right now, which is awesome, everyone wins in that situation. I'm only saying its not as content packed as LCPDFR because its an early release, I agree it will change over time. I do still think the NOOSE chopper is a bit goofy. See -- V

 

I think the NOOSE air support is a bit too much. I'd love to see something where either the regular air support or NOOSE air support shoots from the helicopters (like they will towards you if you have 3+ stars) instead rather than firing missiles in the middle of a busy intersection taking out civilians with it.

as of right now the AI police arent really controllable in terms of lethal or not, so once they shoot they're shooting him to death. I can see this improving over time though. anyways, having the freedom to be action-packed or roleplayed is a great feature, and like I said hopefully that expands into both. i still think its fun for what it is right now.

-snip-

At the moment its still too goofy in my opinion, shooting rockets in a pursuit just breaks immersion. really nothing else to it. but it does cater to the ones who like action packed policing, just hopefully it becomes an option instead of a forced feature.

Edited by Sonny236

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At the moment its still too goofy in my opinion, shooting rockets in a pursuit just breaks immersion. really nothing else to it. but it does cater to the ones who like action packed policing, just hopefully it becomes an option instead of a forced feature.

It's already an option...you just don't use it and voila. Magical realistic policing!
I understand people like to roleplay, trust me I do. But there is absolutely zero logic in going about using up time to make a feature toggleable or optional or removing it to suit the needs of the roleplayers when you can just not use that feature and bam problem solved.

If you can simply not use the feature and still get the experience you want, while those who like said feature can continue to use it unhindered. That there is the best of both worlds. Personally, I love the noose helicopter, it's funny. It's like the Hydra being a police vehicle, that's funny (I bought the t-shirt I liked it that much).

Take FinKone's police radio plugin for example. I'm not demanding he remove the plate checker feature because LSPDFR has one. I just don't use his platechecker in favour of LSPDFR's on foot records check. But others can still use his platechecker if they want.


GTA V Mods: [WIP] More Control V [WIP] CalloutsV [WIP] LSPDFR Chroma
GTA IV Mods: [REL] Callouts+

 

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It's already an option...you just don't use it and voila. Magical realistic policing!
I understand people like to roleplay, trust me I do. But there is absolutely zero logic in going about using up time to make a feature toggleable or optional or removing it to suit the needs of the roleplayers when you can just not use that feature and bam problem solved.

If you can simply not use the feature and still get the experience you want, while those who like said feature can continue to use it unhindered. That there is the best of both worlds. Personally, I love the noose helicopter, it's funny. It's like the Hydra being a police vehicle, that's funny (I bought the t-shirt I liked it that much).

Take FinKone's police radio plugin for example. I'm not demanding he remove the plate checker feature because LSPDFR has one. I just don't use his platechecker in favour of LSPDFR's on foot records check. But others can still use his platechecker if they want.

We shouldn't have to "just not use it" because it was made to tend to a certain group of players. Back to my main point, it should be developed in which both parties can enjoy it. Simply adding an option for normal noose air support along with the one already implemented wouldnt be too big of a hassle, and everyone would be happy. We shouldn't have to miss out on features because they tend to one playergroup. my main "complaint" wasnt about the air support anyways, I just threw that in because I thought (agreeing with some people) that it was a bit goofy. I was talking about some missing basic features, and some uncontrollable things (like the lethality of the AI killing handcuffed peds, inb4 "well its the LSPD of COURSE they would do that!")

Right now its difficult to get used to, as there is limited features in only the second release, giving it time to improve and age a bit, I'll reference 1.0 again, such a successful release with tons of policing features.

Thats cool if you like action packed policing, even though you can do that without mods (You might as well download a trainer, set your uniform and car and just go shoot at civilians in random AI pursuits that R* put into the game), but some people like myself like to seriously roleplay situations, instead of immersion breaking ones. I do see the mod catering to both, especially if all the features from LCPDFR are to be implemented, so I won't worry about it for now, only time will tell. while you do make a good point about third party mods, im talking about LSPDFR specifically and to the developers. Some people play the game vanilla with just lspdfr, some play it with third party plugins/mods, this is something thats part of the base mod. 

Edited by Sonny236

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We shouldn't have to "just not use it" because it was made to tend to a certain group of players. Back to my main point, it should be developed in which both parties can enjoy it. Simply adding an option for normal noose air support along with the one already implemented wouldnt be too big of a hassle, and everyone would be happy. We shouldn't have to miss out on features because they tend to one playergroup. my main "complaint" wasnt about the air support anyways, I just threw that in because I thought (agreeing with some people) that it was a bit goofy. I was talking about some missing basic features, and some uncontrollable things (like the lethality of the AI killing handcuffed peds, inb4 "well its the LSPD of COURSE they would do that!")

Right now its difficult to get used to, as there is limited features in only the second release, giving it time to improve and age a bit, I'll reference 1.0 again, such a successful release with tons of policing features.

Thats cool if you like action packed policing, even though you can do that without mods (You might as well download a trainer, set your uniform and car and just go shoot at civilians in random AI pursuits that R* put into the game), but some people like myself like to seriously roleplay situations, instead of immersion breaking ones. I do see the mod catering to both, especially if all the features from LCPDFR are to be implemented, so I won't worry about it for now, only time will tell. while you do make a good point about third party mods, im talking about LSPDFR specifically and to the developers. Some people play the game vanilla with just lspdfr, some play it with third party plugins/mods, this is something thats part of the base mod. 

Under no circumstances do you miss out on features.  There will of course be different backup options added as the modification grows over time, including medical/fire, etc..  It was important to get the initial balance right though, and we perhaps didn't do that so well with the first release, which is why 0.2b very much catered to those that like to role play.

You do have to understand that LSPDFR is such a new thing.  Four months after the release of GTA IV on PC, there wasn't even a police mod.  Four months after the release of V on PC, you have one that many people say is actually better than the one that was developed for over five years for IV.

And the AI support units suck at this job.  Somehow, with the criminals popping off homing super death rounds like they're going out of style, the NPC cops just drive doggedly behind, absorbing rounds until they tumble out of their cruisers stone dead.  No shooting back at all, no setting up roadblocks, nothing.  And most of the time they're not even a sufficient distraction - the criminals will fire past 3 cruisers to hit the player.  The only way to get some reprieve is to use "Local SWAT" and hope they send Police Transporters with their bulletproof windshields.  

The NOOSE SWAT teams should be pretty efficient at returning fire from their car.  I liken them to a helicopter gunship on wheels when I see them in action.


"You tell me exactly what you want, and I will very carefully explain to you why it cannot be."

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You do have to understand that LSPDFR is such a new thing.  Four months after the release of GTA IV on PC, there wasn't even a police mod.  Four months after the release of V on PC, you have one that many people say is actually better than the one that was developed for over five years for IV.

Yep. and I even said I don't doubt it becoming as great as LCPDFR 1.0 with even more, and I appreciate the work done on it, just pointed a couple things out to improve on possibly, and slightly annoying things with the AI. 

Edited by Sonny236

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